Public Accounts Committee on Dec. 7th, 2006

[Ian Bennett]

Correct.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Were there differences in your requests for these bids, or were you simply taking all the documentation that had been used in the second contract, throwing it out to the public, and saying please bid again?

[Ian Bennett]

There was a very extensive process, an interdepartmental process, that came together to look at the second contract. So to answer the question directly, it wasn't simply a repackaging of the statement of requirements from the second contract, the 2002 contract, into the 2004 contract. There were new dimensions added to that contract, such as security requirements. So there was a very deliberate process in terms of what needed to be included in the contract going forward.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

And these additional requests or sections should or could have entailed different prices?

[Ian Bennett]

In terms of a brand-new process, if that is the question, Mr. Chair, yes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I'm wondering if we could ask Mr. Bennett or any representative from the Department of Public Works to give us some sort of a chart showing the differences between the second and the third contract. We don't necessarily have that in the Auditor General's report, but I'm sure you have that information readily available at the department.

[Ian Bennett]

I don't have it with me, but as to a side-by-side comparison, if that's what the committee is asking for, yes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Bennett, could you be very sure we have that before our meeting on Tuesday, please?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Just 20 seconds.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay, I have a very brief question for Mr. Pile.

How do you explain the difference between what was submitted as being a volume of potentially 183 or 200 members, when in fact it was 7,200? That's quite a bit of difference. How do you account for that?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

I believe it was just a reassessment of the actual people who were involved in that transaction. I'm not even sure where the initial estimate of 7,200 members came from.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Is there any way you could find out?

[RAdm Tyrone Pile]

I certainly could. I could take that question on notice and provide some detail.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Again, Mr. Pile, any of these questions that are taken on notice, the committee would very much like to have them by Monday, or preferably Friday, so that we can circulate them to the members before our meeting on Tuesday.

Thank you very much, Mr. Proulx.

Mr. Williams.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you.

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I've been listening to the answers that Mr. Proulx has been getting from Mr. Bennett and from General Pile, and they're regurgitating what's in the Auditor General's report. We're getting no answers here whatsoever. I tend to lose patience when these types of things happen, because our time is valuable, their time is valuable, and the taxpayers' money is valuable. So will they please be direct and give us real answers to the questions, rather than skate around them or tell us what's already in the report that we've already read is in the report?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Okay, Mr. Williams, your point is well taken—and not only the answers but the questions. I like to see the questions brief, focused, and to the point, and I want to see the answers brief and relevant to the question that was asked.

Monsieur Laforest.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, Ms. Fraser, Mr. Pile, Mr. Bennett and all the others. Thank you for being here today.

Mr. Bennett, does it happen often that Public Works and Government Services, after cancelling a contract because of conflicts of interest that have been verified, observed and proven, would allow the same bidder to submit a proposal for a new contract?

[Ian Bennett]

Public Works and Government Services has a mandate to do the contracts for the Government of Canada. It is common business practice for Public Works and Government Services, if contracts are satisfied, to take the necessary action to replace them.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

That is not an answer, Mr. Bennett.

[Ian Bennett]

It is very common to have the same bidder come in during the second process. There was no requirement in this incidence to disqualify any bidders from the first process.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do you feel that is normal and fair?

[Ian Bennett]

You need to understand that in terms of the allegations and the perception of a conflict of interest, that was with respect to Public Works and Government Services. Unless there were well-founded grounds to disqualify suppliers from the process, it would be very normal.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Ms. Fraser's report talks about a 75-25 technical and financial split in the weighting. I would like to know what criteria were used to come up with that weighting and I would like to obtain the relevant documents.