Public Accounts Committee on Dec. 7th, 2006

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

When I look at the chart that the Auditor General has given, PWGSC is the body that looks after the integrity, the accountability, and the equality of a contract. These are the guiding parameters of procurement, and we have a lot of people who get concerned. They keep on saying this doesn't happen and that government gives bids to whoever its friends are. As legislators, we try to ensure that there is a fair process. I hope that, as an operational body under that legislation, you would do the same. Hence, I have a question.

In paragraph 5.27, the Auditor General says that in regard to “the request for proposal, we noted that a potential bidder had asked PWGSC to provide figures showing the actual use of property management services”, but there was no correct information. If you don't have correct information, how does one believe in the integrity of the process? How does one respect that there was equal treatment given to any other bidders? There were bidders who were there before and who probably had knowledge of it.

So can you give me some comfort as to where I can get some satisfaction on this information, and whether it's the Treasury Board policy that financial evaluation of a bid like this should be done by one person? I know you told me you have probably changed it for the next round, but I want to know where the integrity is, where the accountability is. Thirdly, there should have been a holistic approach in reviewing the bid, but management seems to have not gotten the right collective information, so they couldn't make the decision. How do I trust the process?

[Ian Bennett]

Mr. Chair, there were three questions. On the first question, I'd come back to this point, the question being the basis on which the information was included in the bid. My answer would be that it was based on the best available information that was made available to the department at that point in time.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

But if it is incorrect information, then it's garbage in, garbage out, so how do I know you protected the efficiency and effectiveness of taxpayers' dollars? There is no return on investment. I have no faith.

[Ian Bennett]

Again, on the issue in terms of going back and working with departments, asking for validation of the business volumes was the action that was undertaken. With respect to the information going forward, I want to be clear that the practice at Public Works and Government Services, as instituted in terms of more than one person reviewing the bids, is not just in place for this transaction, but for all major transactions that will be going forward in the future. We take to heart the Auditor General's comment.

With respect to flagging all salient information items as a bid goes forward to senior management, such as the fact that there are discrepancies within the bid, that is taken to heart as well and will be corrected.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Goodfellow, how many people are on your team?

[Richard Goodfellow]

If you mean on my team during the financial evaluation, it was just myself.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

What about preparing the proposal?

[Richard Goodfellow]

In preparing the RFP, it was the interdepartmental committee, with representatives: the project authority from Treasury Board, and the two departmental authorities, one from RCMP and one from National Defence. We met on several occasions, usually twice a week, and we worked collectively in developing the RFP.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Can we receive a table with the names of those people?

Were you the lead?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

Just to be clear on that, do we have a clear undertaking to provide those by Tuesday of next week, Mr. Bennett?

[Ian Bennett]

Okay.

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you.

They'll be available too?

[Ian Bennett]

Yes.... Oh, I'm not sure. Richard could speak to that, Mr. Chair. I don't know whether all of those team members are still active in the federal public service. I can't make that commitment; I'm sorry.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Were you the lead?

[Richard Goodfellow]

I was the lead for the terms and conditions portion of the RFP, and the departments were responsible for providing their statements of work. We worked collectively in developing the evaluation.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Who did you report to?

[Richard Goodfellow]

I reported to a senior director.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Besides the team that was putting this together, who else would have had input on the structuring of this proposal?

[Richard Goodfellow]

We have several review processes within the department prior to publishing the RFP. We published a letter of interest with a draft RFP; we put it out to industry and solicited comments.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Could you provide us with a listing of that as well?

What kind of relationship were those—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

That's your last question, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

The one I've started, or—?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Brian Fitzpatrick]

Finish it.

Is there a point of order?

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Before the end of the meeting, I would like to remind the committee members about the motion that I introduced at the very beginning of the meeting. I would like to know whether the committee will vote in favour of having Deputy Minister David Marshall appear on this matter.