Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 5th, 2007

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You talked about wanting to increase your implementation, so you directed your staff to do something. I found that strange. It seems to me that the problem is on the side of the people who were refusing to do what you say and we've endorsed, but you're saying you need to redirect your staff to do something different. Help me with that.

[Sheila Fraser]

We have looked at our recommendations—I would say, the quality of the recommendations—and if our recommendations are too general or too vague, it's hard to know if they've really been implemented. So we said no, we've given new guidance on recommendations. We've also just recently changed our process for discussing recommendations with senior level management within departments so that we get their agreement on it to the extent that we can. There may be recommendations with which they disagree, but to try to find something that they can actually put into practice. Hopefully, if we make better recommendations that are more relevant to them, we will get a higher implementation rate.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Christopherson.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am new to this committee and I have a couple of basic questions. Who can trigger an investigation?

[Sheila Fraser]

That is entirely up to us. Of course, when a parliamentary committee asks us to conduct an audit, we try to do so.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Any parliamentary committee?

[Sheila Fraser]

Any parliamentary committee, on the condition that the request is made by the committee, and not by an individual member.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Can you refuse?

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Has that already happened?

[Sheila Fraser]

It can happen. We have in the past refused certain requests made by the Public Accounts Committee because we did not have all the necessary information.

We were also asked to audit a certain rate. But since that rate was set by law, we simply explained how it was established and indicated that a more in-depth audit was not necessary.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

So a committee can make a request, but generally the decision is taken by your office, by your team.

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

On page 18 of the English version, it says: "The status report of the Auditor General, scheduled for spring 2007,—"

Is the status report different from other reports?

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes. The status report is a follow-up of previous audits in which we review the matters at hand and give an opinion on whether progress is satisfactory or not.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

So in the status report you conduct a follow-up on audits. On page 20, you refer to a report which will be published in the fall of 2006; however, it has already been published. You go on to say that you will look at national defence, and so on.

How do you decide in advance which organizations you will look at?

[Sheila Fraser]

We establish our audit plan for the coming three years. We conduct a risk analysis of various departments to determine the most important issues and those which can be audited. In fact, a department may have risks which are related, for example, to political issues, or other ones which cannot be audited.

We establish a three-year plan and conduct an analysis to determine which departments will always be audited, such as the Department of National Defence or the Revenue Agency, and those which will be audited once every six or seven years, such as the Department of Justice.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You say that a department like National Defence is always being audited. Does this mean that the department is audited every single year?

[Sheila Fraser]

There is at least one, if not two audits a year.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Are there many other departments that are audited that way?

[Sheila Fraser]

The Canada Revenue Agency, Treasury Board Secretariat and Human Resources and Skills Development are often audited. These are the largest departments in terms of numbers and activities.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You seem to plan your audits a long time in advance, but can you take action on something occurring today? If you sense that something is wrong in the government's current activities, do you take action?

[Sheila Fraser]

Yes. Of course, that requires us to set other work aside. Generally, a non-urgent audit takes between 12 and 18 months. In very specific instances, which are rare, we can proceed much faster.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

With regard to official languages, how do you operate?