And of course you're coming back on that issue.
Another area I want to explore, Mr. Wouters, is capacity, and this is an issue that has been before this committee previously. You can have all the systems in the world and they can work, but if you don't have the people in place who have the capacity, nothing is going to work. You need somebody to drive the wagon here. That has been a concern, although I understand things are improving.
But what is the role of Treasury Board? Circumstances have come before this committee where the chief financial officers in agencies or departments don't appear to us to be financially literate. Do you people have an oversight role?
Let's say some agency out there hired somebody with a political background, or a journalist or something, and put him in the role of chief financial officer. Do you just say no, no way, that position has to meet certain minimum qualifications? Of course, one of the minimum qualifications would be that the person is financially literate, knows exactly how the system operates, and knows what is to be done and what is not to be done. And it's a very important part of the overall functioning of the system.
To give you an example, we're going to do a chapter here on the correctional ombudsman. That agency, albeit a small agency, would have a person responsible for financial administration. The first question that some member is going to ask is, who is it, and is the person financially literate, and does he understand the true nature of government finances and expenditure management?
I'm not going to get into that chapter right now, but the point I'm making is, in the capacity of the departments and agencies, what is the role of Treasury Board? The second question is, are you satisfied as the secretary that all departments and agencies have the proper people with the capacity to perform the functions that are required of them?