Thank you.
Mr. Zaccardelli's opening statement in the statement he just made is not, I find, quite correct. I was personally involved in the removal of Mr. Ewanovich and Mr. Crupi, and here's how it happened.
After he cancelled the first investigation, the criminal investigation that I referred to earlier, Mr. Zaccardelli told me on November 26 that if the audit report showed criminal or internal violations, he would go into the appropriate forum, which would have been an internal investigation or a criminal investigation. When the audit was completed in October 2003, there was no documented evidence by the management. In fact, he indicated that he immediately initiated an internal investigation. I can tell you right now that there was no such document. I was going to make another formal complaint because I was aware of the allegations, but the problem I had was that under the RCMP Act, the only person I could go to was Assistant Commissioner Gessie Clément, CO of A Division. She was now implicated in the audit. She was subsequently removed from her position, so I had no way to go formally. I met with now Deputy Commissioner George, and I asked what was going to happen. She said nothing was going to happen. I asked why not, and she said she'd been in contact with Deputy Commissioner Gauvin, her civilian comptroller, and he'd told her that a couple of hundred thousand dollars had been misspent, that they were going to give them a slap on the hand and move on.
I represent senior officers. I'm their spokesperson. I said, “Pass this message on to the commissioner”. I also saw another deputy commissioner at that same time and passed it on through him that if there was no discipline, if there was no investigation, I would go public on behalf of the members I was representing.
She called me back in the office in early November and said Crupi and Ewanovich were gone. He described how they were removed.
Then I went back in on November 23 to Barb George, and I asked about the investigation. I was told, “There's not going to be any investigation.” I said, “Pass this on to the commissioner. If there is no investigation, it's going public.” She called me back into her office on November 24. She said, “I sat up last night with my husband, Tom”, who was also a member and just retired from CSIS. She said, “If he doesn't allow an investigation, because this is the only way we can get it done, through the act, then I will resign.” She said, “Okay, I had a meeting with him last night. Submit your reports.”
I submitted my report on January 5, 2004. Nothing happened. On February 16, 2004, my report, which I provided to the highest level of the RCMP, got leaked. It was photostatted and being passed around everywhere. I then went to the minister--Anne McLellan at the time--I went to the OAG, and I went to the President of the Treasury Board. On Saturday I received, finally, the circumstances of where that went, and it worked its way up to our deputy commissioner, and five days later, in March, the Ottawa city police were contacted.
At no time was an internal investigation ordered. At no time was a criminal investigation ordered, contrary to what Mr. Zaccardelli has said here. And when the internal investigation was finally ordered and the determination that we missed our year for charging members of the RCMP, it was 41 months after my first criminal investigation complaint.
Now, if that's immediate, then there is a whole new term for “immediate”--41 months later. Those are the events we have documentation on.