Evidence of meeting #60 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
C/Supt Fraser Macaulay
This presentation was run through these two gentlemen yesterday. Prior to that we ran it through other people, both from NCPC and corporate services. The purpose of that was to ensure that the facts being put before the committee are exact. That's why these two gentlemen are here today, for any clarity you would like around it. This is the corporate position as far as I'm concerned, and that's why we're here with our logos, etc., on the paper.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you very much.
We don't have a lot of time left. What I would like to do is just start a round of five minutes and go as far as we can.
Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, for five minutes.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
If necessary, I'll share my time.
Mr. Gauvin sat on the PAC committee. Is that correct?
5:10 p.m.
C/Supt Fraser Macaulay
That's correct.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
A number of these issues were raised in the PAC committee, so he would have been aware of these various problematic issues. Is that correct?
5:10 p.m.
C/Supt Fraser Macaulay
He was in attendance, and in some of the minutes you will see he was present when these discussions were taking place. I believe he was questioned before this committee around a presentation you received from Morneau Sobeco.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Mr. Gauvin testified before us here that he pulled Mr. Crupi's contracting authority. During the time Mr. Crupi's contracting authority was supposedly pulled by Mr. Gauvin, do we know approximately how much Mr. Crupi signed off on?
Perhaps Mr. Frizzell—
5:10 p.m.
S/Sgt Mike Frizzell
Mr. Crupi would have had standard authority of a director, which I believe is $5,000 for goods and $10,000 for services.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
While the internal audit was going on, do you have any idea of the sorts of numbers we might be looking at that he was signing off on while he was under investigation through the internal audit?
5:10 p.m.
S/Sgt Mike Frizzell
It was $6.3 million. That's just the one contract. There were lots of others.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Also, in testimony before us here, Barb George has given us various conflicting versions of the reasons you were removed from the investigation. She referred to your interview techniques. Rosalie Burton named an individual, a Mr. Bellemare. Did you interview that particular individual? This individual was quite emotionally stressed.
5:10 p.m.
S/Sgt Mike Frizzell
No, I did not.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Mr. Frizzell, you raised a lot of points again today. Certainly the e-mails and the verification of the individuals who you spoke to back and forth are there to substantiate a fair amount of this information. Is there anything else you haven't shared with this committee that you think we should know as we go forward to start producing a recommendation?
5:15 p.m.
S/Sgt Mike Frizzell
The investigational binder is over 300 pages, so I've tried to be selective. I'm hoping what you heard today lets you see the nature of the dealings that were going on and the complete inability of people who were in place to stop those goings on.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
We have talked about having a public inquiry here at the committee. Do I suggest, then, that you're fully in favour of there being a public inquiry?
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I have a point of order. I don't think it's a position to ask a staff sergeant or a chief superintendent of the RCMP whether we should have a public inquiry. That's a political decision. It's not a decision of the force. Therefore I don't think it is an appropriate question.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Perhaps I can just clarify, Mr. Chair. Asking Mr. Frizzell if he feels it would be beneficial to have a public inquiry, clearly knowing it is our decision to go forward with it—As a committee, if we want to make that recommendation, I'm simply asking him if he feels there is additional information that would be beneficial through a public inquiry.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman, but on my point of order, he is sitting here. He made a presentation as a member of the RCMP. He is sitting here in uniform, and I don't think it is appropriate to ask any of these gentlemen sitting before us whether that is appropriate.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Mr. Williams, I allow a certain latitude. The committee has already spoken on the issue of a public inquiry. The answer that this witness will give adds nothing to the debate whatsoever. That decision is not made by this committee, but I'll allow the question.
And then, Ms. Sgro, your time is up.
5:15 p.m.
S/Sgt Mike Frizzell
Truthfully, I have no opinion. I've been through enough, sitting in front of a public inquiry.
5:15 p.m.
Bloc
Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
In your initial testimony, Mr. Macauley, you said that the first time you spoke to Ms. Barbara George about all the anomalies we are discussing today, her response to you was that you were alone on your island. Now, having answered the question about whether your testimony today reflects the position of the RCMP, do you feel a little less alone on your island?