Evidence of meeting #69 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meeting.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Georges Etoka
Sheila Fraser  Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Ken Cochrane  Chief Information Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Steven Poole  Chief Executive Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Jim Alexander  Deputy Chief Information Officer, Chief Information Officer Branch, Treasury Board Secretariat

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Apparently we don't need unanimous consent, Mr. Chair. I apologize.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

Yes, but if you do, it makes it easier.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

I so move.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

I second that Anne McLellan be included in the list.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

And Reg Alcock.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Sure.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

We have an amendment here. Do you want to speak to the amendment?

Go ahead, Ms. Sgro.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Chair, I'm sure if you want to spend a few more hours, we can dig up a whole lot more people to have here.

This continues to put us as a dysfunctional committee, Mr. Chairman, and I have to say it. The work we are supposed to be doing on behalf of Canadians is looking at how money was spent. We've done a lot of work. Every time we turn around.... We've had Mr. Alcock; we've had Ms. McLellan here. They gave us the testimony with what they've had. Mr. Zaccardelli was the head of the RCMP until a very short time ago.

The question is whether we are going to continue the witch hunt or whether we are going to try to get some work done. You guys want to go.... You can get another list and we'll bring some more people and we can go all summer, but I don't think Canadians expect us to continue to go around and bring people back a second and third time--to accomplish what?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

Go ahead, Borys.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Mr. Poilievre had previously made an amendment to a witness request that I had made, and I had accepted it. I even said I would take it on as a friendly amendment because I thought it important to hear from the previous president of the Treasury Board and the minister. They testified. They were asked these questions.

The purpose of this particular motion that I tabled last Thursday, and of the letter that was circulated and signed, was to deal with Mr. Brown's report. If you read Mr. Brown's report, you'll find a number of things within that report. Some inaccuracies that we need to deal with have been noted in the report, and there are names mentioned, but neither of those ministers is mentioned by name in that report.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I just want to clarify that the motion that has gone forward and has been seconded by Mr. Christopherson is just for Anne McLellan. That was the motion he had seconded. I note that Mr. Wrzesnewskyj was speaking about both ministers. It is just Anne McLellan in this motion that he seconded.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

If I may, Chair, just quickly, the reason is that we have brought in the one minister. I'm not comfortable with the President of the Treasury Board, because we're not bringing in the current one, so there's no match-up.

But I think it's fair. The government members have made a good argument that the previous minister has a piece of this. This is about the accountability piece. In fairness, I think it's right that we would bring in at least Minister McLellan, but I would draw the line there. Anything else really is over the top.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Just to conclude on what I was saying, we've heard this evidence. There's nothing in Mr. Brown's report that seems to indicate anything of interest. The numbers are here that potentially you can vote to have her appear or not have her appear and it will be the will of the committee, but we'd potentially be wasting our time.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

Ms. Sgro.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

To clarify, is this just one more person added to the list?

4:05 p.m.

A voice

Yes.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Okay.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

Is that a yea, then? If we have unanimous agreement on it, should we debate this matter any more?

There would be one more witness.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Call the vote.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

Mr. Williams, is this a point of order?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Finish this point first.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

It seems that we have agreement here, so—

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Brian, finish it off.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Brian Fitzpatrick

On the motion as amended—