You should actually put that question to Commissioner Zaccardelli. Based on some of our discussions, he would probably find it fairly amusing. We've had fairly aggressive engagements on a wide range of matters involving budgets and other kinds of things in terms of requests for additional resources and so on.
My very clear answer to that is no, I was in fact never involved with the operational matters of the force. In fact, once any minister starts to do that, you have a Stalinist state. I've said that before, and I've gone on record saying it. In fact, Mr. Kennedy has alluded to the importance in our system of government in terms of the political arm of government not involving itself in the operational issues of the RCMP.
I'm not going to comment on the relationship of the commissioner with Madam Heafey. I certainly heard from both of them as to what they thought the relationship was about. It was not an easy relationship. I think she has made it plain. He has probably made it plain.
The public complaints commission is independent of the Minister of Public Safety.