Evidence of meeting #17 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
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Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I believe in our audit we were aware of two. One of course was the NORAD project. The other one mentioned in paragraph 1.77 was the Shearwater hangars.
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Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
On the actual circumventions, perhaps we could get a little more detail, because there seems to be a disconnect in what we're hearing at the table here today.
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Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I would be glad to do that.
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Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Mr. Shuster, in the last week we've heard from General Hillier that he's become especially sensitive to security matters. This report is quite an indictment of Defence and how it handles security.
You are the official in charge of security. Have you heard from the general as a result of this report?
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Director, Deputy Provost Marshal Security, Department of National Defence
I have not heard from General Hillier.
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Liberal
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Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence
Yes. In a follow-up to the Auditor General's report, all of the responsible officials were directed by the Chief of the Defence Staff and the deputy minister in the development of the action plan. I am here today partly because of the seriousness that the head of the Canadian Forces and the head of the department, the accounting officer--
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Liberal
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Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence
It was in October, in following up on the report, when the department wrote to the Auditor General with the action plan and our response to it.
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Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
So that happened in October, but I guess Mr. Shuster wasn't made aware of this.
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Director, Deputy Provost Marshal Security, Department of National Defence
I'm sorry, I have been involved in the action plan, but as to your question, I have not personally heard from General Hillier.
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Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence
The correspondence I'm referring to was addressed to the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, who in the chain of command is above Lieutenant-Colonel Shuster. So that would explain in part why he wasn't a personal addressee on that.
1:05 p.m.
Director, Deputy Provost Marshal Security, Department of National Defence
Again, just to clarify, I was an addressee on the action plan. With regard to the action plan, I have received it, but coming from the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff.
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Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Mr. Stevenson, Mr. Shuster could previously not answer the question, who were these foreign contractors? We didn't get an answer from you when he referred that to you.
Who were these foreign contractors involved with the NORAD project?
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Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence
I don't have that information myself at this time.
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Liberal
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Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Infrastructure and Environment, Department of National Defence
Yes.
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Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
That's generous of you.
Mr. Williams, you're up at bat for the last four minutes.
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Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I was reading through this report, and like everybody, I find some serious problems here.
Mr. Nicholls, I don't think we've heard too much from you today, but it seems to me in your opening statement—I don't have a copy of it—you mentioned that you have a great deal of experience at Defence Construction Canada. Did you say 50 years, or was it 90 years? I can't remember which.
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President and Chief Executive Officer, Defence Construction Canada
The corporation, not myself. I don't have 56 years; the corporation has 56 years of experience.
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Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Fifty-six years of experience; you said a great deal of experience. Yet when I take a look at the section starting at paragraph 1.70 on page 23 of the Auditor General's report, you as a crown corporation should have an agreement with the Treasury Board. You don't even have an agreement regarding security with the Treasury Board. You're operating out there, having no legal liability whatsoever, and yet you tell us you have a great deal of experience.
Why has something so basic missed you for 56 years?
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President and Chief Executive Officer, Defence Construction Canada
The corporation has operated for 56 years under a series of memoranda of understanding with the Department of National Defence. In those memoranda—
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Conservative
John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
But why have you missed something so basic as having an agreement regarding security? Much of your work involves security. Haven't you even been focused on security?