Evidence of meeting #29 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you, Mr. Christopherson.
Monsieur Bélanger, vous aurez cinq minutes.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
In the same vein, Mr. Chair, it might be something for the steering committee to consider: that perhaps we ought to dedicate a meeting specifically to this matter, once we have the list and the policies, the five proposed principles, so that this can be aired a bit more publicly. For if we have difficulty in preserving the autonomy of agents of Parliament, then we have a serious problem.
I would suggest, Mr. Chair, that you consider that possibility.
Ms. Fraser, I listened to what you had to say carefully. I reread your statement this morning and I'm now looking at the plans that you have presented, the management audit for 2008-2009, the special reviews that have been scheduled, and that goes right up until 2020. One question springs to mind. I see that your office sometimes finds it difficult to complete audits on time, that the workload is quite heavy and onerous.
Could you tell us whether or not your office has the required flexibility to take on work that crops up suddenly or work that has been requested by parliamentarians?
For instance, the people in Public Works Canada have begun selling buildings. On the one hand, they are selling these buildings, and on the other hand, they are signing 25-year contracts with buy-back conditions. Many people are questioning the economic value of this action. I do not know whether or not you have looked into this issue. Personally, I don't think that we should be doing this. This issue could then be looked at objectively and then submitted to parliamentarians.
To what extent are you able to add audits to the workload? And do you have the required flexibility to respond to requests from parliamentarians or do you have to set aside some tasks, so that you can take on others which, for one reason or another, are likely to become more urgent?
12:45 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Fifty per cent of our work is determined by the statutes. I refer here to audits of financial statements and special reviews. Deadlines must be respected and the work must be done every year. To some extent, management audits enable us to gain more flexibility. Usually they take about 18 months, from the beginning to the date that the report is released. If we are really dealing with an emergency, we generally have to reassign staff. We can hire staff on a contract basis, former employees or other individuals, in order to increase our staff for very specific mandates. Nevertheless, we generally have to use people who have the competencies and required knowledge. To some extent, we are limited by our staff and availability.
In addition, we are evolving in a world where this type of employee is in very high demand. We cannot tell these people in my office to wait around and remain available should something crop up. Their time has to be planned; otherwise, that causes problems. They need to know what type of work they're going to be doing and whether or not it is interesting. Everyone is booked.
We can make some changes, but we do not have a great deal of flexibility. However, we can interrupt one mandate to begin another. As for the building issue, we will certainly be studying it as part of the public accounts audit held this year. This issue is part of our audit plan.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Madam Fraser, you had mentioned that there's a schedule of 25 policies that you believe would jeopardize your independence as an officer of Parliament.
Could you table that with our committee as well?
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you.
When exactly did this particular edict you mentioned come down, that all departments, including officers of Parliament, have to provide their communications to the Privy Council?
12:50 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I believe this is a draft policy, a new communications policy. But I believe it was in the old communications policy, even previous to that. I can certainly provide that information to the committee.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
I think perhaps to illustrate how problematic that may be—you mentioned your press releases.... We see trends going in the wrong direction recently. Previously, 19% of recommendations agreed to by departments were not acted upon. That's approximately one out of every five, and presently we're at 28%. We're approaching one out of every three recommendations being agreed to but not acted upon, notwithstanding the fact that you've become more rigorous in requesting action plans. When you connect those two, you can see how problematic this particular attempt at an edict would in fact be.
12:50 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I personally don't see a connection between the two. I think the recommendations can vary a lot from year to year, depending on which departments we've gone into and which issues we've looked at. If they were the same issues year after year, one might be able to do a trend line, but I think we have to look at it more globally than that. There should probably be a little more analysis. We can see if we can provide more analysis perhaps in our departmental performance report for this coming year if we see any particular reason for an improvement or a decrease in the implementation of recommendations.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you, Mrs. Fraser.
Colleagues, that concludes the second round.
On behalf of the committee, I want to thank you very much, Ms. Fraser and Ms. Sachs, for appearing here today. On behalf of all committee members, I want to thank you very much for your continued excellent work on behalf of Parliament and all Canadians.
Before you leave, colleagues, we have a motion regarding the estimates. But before we put the motion, which shouldn't take very long, I want to ask Ms. Fraser if she has any closing remarks she wants to address to the committee.
12:50 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I would very much like to thank the committee for its interest in our work. I truly believe we would not be effective if it were not for the parliamentary hearings and the interest of this committee. Your hearings really do make our work meaningful. I look forward to continuing working with you over the next year.
Thank you.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you very much.
Colleagues, to conclude the discussion on the estimates, the chair will now put the vote to the committee. I'll read it to you.
FINANCE
Auditor General
Vote 15—Program expenditures..........$72,239,000
Shall vote 15 in the amount of $72,239,000, less the amount of $18,059,750 granted in interim supply, under the Department of Finance carry?
(Vote 15 agreed to)
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Shall I, the chair, report this approval to the House? So moved by Mr. Christopherson.
12:50 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
I want to thank you again.
I want to remind colleagues that on Thursday we have a three-hour meeting starting at 11 o'clock. Lunch will be served. We will have, for the first hour, Mr. Kevin Page, the new Parliamentary Budget Officer. From 12 to 2, we have the Greening of Government Operations, and we will have before us the Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development.
Thank you very much.
I will adjourn the meeting.
