Evidence of meeting #30 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was targets.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
Exactly, I am an officer of Parliament.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
You do not have the independence of an agent of Parliament.
Parliamentary Librarian, Library of Parliament
He has the independence of an officer of the Library of Parliament.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Yes, I understand but, with respect, Mr. Young, the Library of Parliament is not completely independent. As you said, the Library reports to the Speaker of the House and the Speaker of the Senate. The Speaker of the Senate is appointed by the government and, in a majority government situation, one can expect that the government would decide who would be the Speaker of the House.
I respect the independence of the Library of Parliament but that independence is not as complete or as assured as the independence of the Privacy Commissioner or the Elections Commissioner, for example. Do you agree with me?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
I have to provide independent and nonpartisan advice. In that context...
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I expect that. You do report to someone. Do you report to Mr. Young?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
Sir, I report to the Speakers of the House and the Senate and to Mr. Young.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I have another question, which is based on a concern I have vis-à-vis agents, and I'll now extend it to officers. This is not directed to you personally, but I'd like to know whether you, for instance, intend this to be your last job. I gather you have a five-year mandate, which is renewable, I presume for another five years. Is that correct?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
That's correct. It's a five-year appointment.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
This will put you at an age where you may or may not be wishing to retire. Is that correct?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
Sir, I'm in very good health.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
My dad worked until he was 65, and I have uncles who worked well beyond that. Mr. Khan has a father who has worked well beyond—
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I'll just share with colleagues the concern that I think as parliamentarians we ought to have vis-à-vis agents and officers. If we take them from the public service, which we seem to be doing more and more, and they expect to go back to work, then the independence can be somewhat attenuated, if you will, because of the desire to perhaps go back into the public service after. I just want to flag that as a concern that perhaps all parliamentarians ought to have vis-à-vis our officers and our agents.
I don't intend, sir, to cast any aspersions towards you on that. But it's a matter of principle that we ought to be aware of and concerned with.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
Sir, it's a valid concern, and it has been raised to me by some of my folks that it would probably be unlikely that in the context of this job the doors would be open for me to go back to the public service. Whether they are or are not, I think there will be lots of other opportunities for me, whether it be in an academic community or a private sector community, so I'm not concerned about that.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
There are two questions on the work you will be doing. You mentioned one in the mandate, and there's one I have some difficulty with, and that's estimating the financial costs of proposals introduced by a member of either House. I would have thought, sir—and colleagues—that the initial work of estimating the cost associated with a private member's bill or motion would be to the government, and your role would have been to assess the government's evaluation or estimate of costs.
I would hope we would not, by creating the officer we have created whose chair you occupy, be doing the work of the government.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
You're right, sir, that we definitely operate within a Westminster system, which is very different from the Congressional system. We will not be producing budgets. The Parliamentary Budget Officer will not produce an alternative budget.
There are, from time to time, requests from members in the House and the Senate to look at costing-related issues. We've seen a number of these recently. A number of things are being costed. Preliminary costing is done within the Library of Parliament now.
There has been an issue raised as to whether we need to do more of this type of analysis, perhaps more collaborative work, either with departments or perhaps with people in the private sector community, to provide better estimates and financial costing estimates to highlight some of the related issues.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
My concern is that a lot of the resources at your disposal, which are already limited, might be directed towards analyzing and estimating costs for private members' business, which I believe should be done initially by the government. Anyhow....
The last point is that I presume you'll insist that parliamentarians have the ability to compare apples to apples. So might I ask, sir, when you prepare your analysis of government budgeting, that you also look at the underlying definitions. When you have a change in government, obviously there may be a different orientation and different priorities, and therefore governments and their ministers might be tempted to redefine certain statistics so as to project conclusions that would better serve their intentions. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. That's why we have a democracy. But I would hope that when you provide analysis to parliamentarians you flag any change in definition that has led to a change in picture that has led to a change in the government resources being proposed. Will you undertake to do that, sir?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
I will undertake to do that, sir. It's a very good question. From time to time, governments will change, for example, their fiscal targets. They'll use different definitions of debt. They'll go from gross to net expenditures. It's a very good question, and we will compare apples to apples.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.
Thank you very much, Mr. Page.
The last questioner is Mr. Sweet. You have six minutes, Mr. Sweet.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
In fact, a significant part of your mandate is to make sure there is consistency in reporting so there is continuous quality, right?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
The Auditor General provides significant work in making sure we have clean public accounts. If she has concerns, observations are often raised in that kind of context.
We will be working within those public accounts. But, sir, yes, in terms of looking at standards, in terms of practices, and in terms of financial reporting, we definitely consider that to be part of our work.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Okay. I just wanted to pick up on the momentum of Mr. Bélanger's questioning. So now I will thank Mr. Young, Mr. Page, and Mr. Khan for coming.
There is no question that if I had the credentials you have, just with the capacity-building you did between 1977 and 1987, I wouldn't be concerned about getting a job after this either.
I want to ask whether you are going to have any limitations on how often you can make a report public. Right now, the Auditor General has a limitation of four times a year. Would there be any limitation at all?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
I'm not aware of any limitations, per se. We think regular reporting should be part of our job. We will have discussions within our team. This goes back to the very first question that was put, sir, in terms of our priorities over the next number of months and consulting the user about the best way to provide that kind of regular reporting. But at this point in time, I do not see any limitations. And of course the economic news changes quite rapidly.