Evidence of meeting #15 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was departments.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Finally, I'll go back to the question we didn't have time for last time. What if your recommendations aren't followed?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We only have the power of recommendation and, I would perhaps say, a bit of nagging. We come back and do follow-up audits and persist in bringing it to Parliament's attention.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I would like some clarification from Mr. Smith.
Mr. Smith, you said mid-May would be when the supplementary estimates or the $3 billion will be drawn down or allocated. Have I heard you correctly?
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Not quite. In mid-May we will be tabling the supplementary estimates. That would be the first instalment for 2009-10. We have undertaken to report on all allocations from central votes--which include this one, Treasury Board vote 35--when we table the supplementary estimates (A). Those will be allocations to initiatives, to programs. They will look very much like the initiatives in allocations in supplementary estimates.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
So at the moment there has been no drawdown on that vote item, to your knowledge?
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I didn't say that. In fact, Mr. Wouters mentioned that Treasury Board has been very hard at work in doing its due diligence in looking at specific allocations from TB vote 35, but we won't be reporting on that until we table supplementary estimates, and then in the June quarterly report.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I think Mr. Monette wanted to respond. Did you want to add something?
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I had in my mind the response to the question around accountability. There were a number of questions on that generally, but I don't want to take up the committee's time, Mr. Chair, on that issue.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
We have all had some confusion about the eligibility criteria. You had suggested that there were eligibility criteria. Is it possible for the committee to have that?
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
The eligibility criteria would be in all the various departments. Each department would have its own criteria. The audit function in each of those departments would have gone through the criteria with the people in the department to try to make sure the criteria are as clear as possible. It would actually be from each department.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Who would develop the eligibility criteria? That's what the Auditor General asked in her letter to Mr. Wouters. She said she would like to know that the eligibility criteria are explicit and clear enough. Who would produce the criteria? Would it be the Treasury Board?
Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat
Again, if you look at the various budget items, under each budget item there's a department responsible for that particular program. It's that department's responsibility to bring forward the detailed eligibility criteria to the Treasury Board for approval. We then do the due diligence of the board and we may recommend changes to the terms and conditions of the eligibility criteria.
In terms of accountability, probably one of the most critical first steps in moving forward with any new initiative is to ensure that the initiative has clear terms and conditions. One thing we probably have learned over the years is that when those terms and conditions are not clear, there can be issues in terms of how that money is spent.
A lot of hard work has been done by departments, working with the Treasury Board Secretariat and Treasury Board ministers, to get ready to spend this economic stimulus package by ensuring that we have terms and conditions that we feel are clear and that departments can use as they begin to approve individual projects against those terms and conditions.
Conservative
Bruce Stanton Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Mr. Chair, my question goes to the Auditor General.
As part of your presentation, you stated that first nations activities do not come under your mandate.
I wonder if you could clarify what you mean by that. Certainly much of the work you do refers specifically to first nations.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We audit the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, but we do not audit specific first nations or bands. In much of the work we do, we ask first nations for their views or experiences, or to collaborate with us in the audit, and we have actually received excellent reception and collaboration from first nations across the country, but we don't actually go in and audit the finances of individual first nations.
Conservative
Bruce Stanton Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Just to clarify, you are saying that you don't actually audit the operations of the community or the dollars that are expended or allocated within the community.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
That's correct. Each first nation has its own auditor from the private sector. That person will audit their financial statements.
Conservative
Bruce Stanton Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Great. Thank you for that.
I have another brief question, and I'm not sure to whom I should ask it. I'm sorry I missed your opening presentation. Mr. Del Mastro was here filling in prior to my arrival, and I apologize if you've already covered this ground.
It was noted in budget 2009 that in terms of the strategic review that has been under way for some time, savings of some $586 million have already been identified. Could you briefly give some indication as to what you're looking at in terms of the strategic review process, going into the remainder of this year and 2010?
Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat
Again, the objective of strategic review is to identify and review 20% to 25% of direct program spending on an annual basis. We are now just in the process of identifying what areas of spending we'll be covering off. There will need to be discussions with the Treasury Board on that. Then we will launch the process leading to the budget of 2010. That process is basically now getting under way again for this year.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
That wraps up our time, colleagues.
Witnesses, on behalf of all the members of the committee, I want to thank you very much for appearing here today. Before we adjourn, I'm going to ask the Auditor General and Mr. Wouters if they have any closing remarks.
Ms. Fraser, do you have any concluding comments?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I'd just like to say thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to have this briefing. I hope it was helpful to you. I think it will probably be helpful in light of the hearing that we will be having Thursday afternoon on the office as well.
Thank you.
Liberal
Secretary, Treasury Board Secretariat
I would just like to thank all the members for allowing us to have this broader discussion. Often we're here on a specific issue. We find it very helpful and very useful to outline some of the overall issues of public sector management that we're trying to address. Hopefully we are making good progress in some of these areas. We know there are always challenges and that it's a very big organization, but we're really very pleased to be able to have the opportunity to have a conversation with you about this.
Thank you very much for your time.
Liberal