Evidence of meeting #33 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gba.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Neil Bouwer Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Social Development Policy, Privy Council Office
Thank you.
I'll have to check on the date for you, sir. We have required that for a couple of years as part of the memorandum-to-cabinet template. We have advised departments that gender issues should be incorporated where appropriate and, as has been mentioned by the witnesses already, we play an ongoing challenge function role: we ask departments how they are doing that and we look on a case-by-case basis at how it is being done.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Thank you.
I will come back to the secretary. Was there a process in place to monitor the implementation of GBA prior to 2007?
October 19th, 2009 / 4:10 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'd have to defer to my colleagues to determine whether there was a specific process, but I think the issues around gender-based analysis have been incorporated more informally; it was not until we actually issued a revised guide that it was specifically written up as a requirement for submissions per se. It has been a part of the management accountability framework, which I referred to in my opening remarks, as one of the elements that is required in our assessment of whether a department measures up to the quality of Treasury Board submissions per se.
I would turn to Ms. Tapley to see if I have missed anything on this issue.
4:10 p.m.
Catrina Tapley Executive Director and Gender-Based Analysis Champion, International Affairs, Security and Justice Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
No, that is a fairly complete response, but I will add on the management accountability framework that we are now into round 7 of the framework, and this particular area of management is one of 19. On this we've evolved, and we've become more specific around this as well in terms of what we consider to be a quality Treasury Board submission. We look at a number of lenses--economic, fiscal, official languages, environmental--and they include gender.
As the secretary has indicated, since 2007 we've been very explicit in the guide on the need for gender-based analysis to be conducted in all Treasury Board submissions. Prior to that, gender was certainly a consideration, but we've been much more specific since 2007 about what is required and what we expect.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Thank you.
My next question is for the Auditor General. Madam Fraser, can you give us an example in which of the implementation of GBA resulted in a positive outcome for women that would not have happened had the GBA not been implemented?
4:10 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada
Mr. Chair, I think that question would better go to either Status of Women or the Treasury Board. We didn't look specifically at outcomes. We only looked to see if the analysis had been done and had been considered in the policy development process.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Director, Gender-Based Analysis Support Services, Status of Women Canada
Yes.
We know, for example, that the Canadian experience class category that came out from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration did do a good GBA and looked at the impacts of some of the things they were considering originally. With this new category that came out, by looking at some of the impacts, at things like full-time continuous work, for example, they saw that it might have a negative impact in terms of the labour market patterns of women. They changed that requirement. Now it's much more open in terms of women and looking at part-time work.
I have another couple of examples. I don't know if you'd like to hear more.
4:15 p.m.
Director, Gender-Based Analysis Support Services, Status of Women Canada
You obviously know about the matrimonial property legislation coming out from the Department of Indian Affairs. There, an extensive GBA was done in terms of the impact it would have on women. Obviously that legislation in particular will help women, even in looking at situations of being able to flee violent situations. In how this legislation was developed, we used GBA quite extensively.
The examples that come forward all depend on the implementation of the frameworks and the practice of the analysis in departments. When you have leaders, you obviously generate good examples, so we have Indian Affairs and Citizenship and Immigration. In part, you have other areas. For example, Health Canada is very strong on the research side.
Actually, I brought GBA kits for members. In each kit is a very good example on cardiovascular disease and how Health Canada was able to show that the symptoms are different for women. Therefore, program response needs to be different.
We can provide you more examples if you wish.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Okay.
First of all, I want to compliment you on the cardiovascular disease research you've done, because as a director of the board of the Heart and Stroke Foundation, I note that this issue has come up with us as well.
Finally, I'd just like to ask the Auditor General this question. Where does Canada stand internationally on the application of GBA?
4:15 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada
We don't have that information. We didn't do a comparative study.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you, Mr. Saxton.
I just want to clarify one issue before we go to the second round. Perhaps I'll deal specifically with the Department of Finance.
My question is to you, Ms. Fraser. From reading the report, am I led to conclude that you're not certain whether you have all relevant documents in the performance of this audit?
4:15 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada
We were not able to verify certain assertions made to us around, for example, the challenge function, because we were told that the only written evidence of that was in the précis, which is considered advice to ministers and which we do not see.
We are not asking to see that, but we would have expected such an important function to have been documented and available to us.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
So the response or the statement you received from the department was that, other than the actual memorandum to the minister, which we all recognize and acknowledge you're not entitled to receive, there were no other e-mails, letters, or anything else they could show you.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Okay. Well, it's surprising to me as chair that the cupboard would be totally bare, that there would be no memos, no letters, or anything.
So perhaps to clarify this issue, what I'm going to do, Ms. Levonian, is ask if you could file with the committee--and I'm going to be very careful in the wording--all documents, including reports, memos, e-mails and letters, related to gender-based reports in relation to budget numbers, other than submissions to cabinet or précis. Could you file those with this committee, please?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
I can actually answer that question now. When the Auditor General did an audit of our department, we did a search of all that information. What we were able to provide, we did provide. Everything that we were not able to provide is a cabinet confidence, and we wouldn't be able to provide it here either. We've provided to the auditor everything that we had that was available.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
So your evidence before the committee.... There are no e-mails and nothing else other than what the auditor was provided.
4:15 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada
Well, Chair, I know that when we do a submission to the Treasury Board Secretariat, correspondence is through e-mails. I could even present one to committee where we had a question on gender-based analysis, so I'm sort of surprised that we would somehow be treated as special and have written e-mails while other departments don't.
But I have no proof, obviously, other than that, so I have to rely upon what has been said, and the process, we are being told, is all verbal.