Public Accounts Committee on Dec. 9th, 2009

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

We'd like to have you back a year from now, or a little longer, and see if you were able to deliver on that. If you were, you might find a pretty decent reception at this committee. Should you not, all hell will break loose again, I would imagine.

However, might I just suggest that you expand a definition for me, if you would. I am pleased to see, once again, that you have stated a focus on Canada's ability to make a difference, to establish precedents and capacity in foreign policy, etc. When you say “ability to make a difference”, how would you define that? Are you talking about humanitarian issues, income, health? How would you define that? Is it a narrow cast, or is it extremely broad-based?

[Margaret Biggs]

When I used that I gave you three criteria, which were for the country's selection, if that's what you are talking about. The second was making a difference. That's a generic sort of expression in terms of whether we think we can make a difference in the country we have chosen to work with. Do we have a partner there with whom we feel we can actually get the job done? There is no point in our trying to work in a country where we don't think we can get effective results. So that's more a governance measure, if you will, and whether we think they have the systems and the capacity to work with us to deliver results for Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Kramp.

Madame Faille, you have three minutes.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, you talked about the OECD. I read the OECD report on CIDA. It contains many positive comments regarding the fact that much of the aid is untied. The report refers to the decentralized way of structuring aid in various countries. However, your action plan is criticized. The report states that it took you 18 months to prepare your report, but that it did not contain any results pertaining to development and mutual accountability. In addition, the report indicated that you had tied the performance contracts of employees in India to effectiveness objectives.

Criticism was also levied against your choice of 20 countries of focus for Canadian aid and the fact that you emphasized three of the five major Canada-wide priorities for international aid, namely: enhancing food security, stimulating sustainable economic growth and providing for the future of children and youth. The objective to promote democracy and the objective to guarantee security and stability were not given priority by CIDA. You were also criticized for the fact that you have not integrated issues such as the environment in your action plan. Finally, the lack of enlightened public debate in Canada on the issue of international aid was noted.

I would like to hear your comments.

[Margaret Biggs]

Thank you.

In my reading of the OECD's report on CIDA, the comment about 18 months was not a criticism. It was actually a positive comment that this was done with deep understanding within the agency, that the whole agency was engaged on this. It was actually viewed as being a positive comment.

In terms of the priorities, from an international point of view there are five priorities that the government is focusing on. CIDA is focusing on three, as you would expect, because they're most pertinent to our poverty reduction mandate. Again, I do not believe... In fact, quite the opposite: I think the OECD is praising CIDA, not criticizing it.

In terms of the cross-cutting issues, CIDA already has very strong gender equality provisions that are integrated into what we do, and we're actually seen as being a leader across the world on that. We are going to renew those, but these comments by the OECD are the next pieces for CIDA to undertake. I would not view them as criticisms in any way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Are you raising a point of order on that issue?

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

This is like what happened previously. The bells are ringing, and the point has been raised by Mr. Kramp to continue. We will need unanimous consent, so the chair is going to ask. Do I have unanimous consent to proceed for another seven or eight minutes?

The chair recognizes that we do not have unanimous consent. So pursuant to the Standing Orders, I am obliged to adjourn the meeting. We will not resume, because it will be after 5:30. I will allow you—and I hope I have permission—a 30-second sum-up, Mr. Flageole and Ms. Biggs. Then I will adjourn the meeting.

Mr. Flageole, is there anything you want to say? We will not be resuming after this.

[Richard Flageole]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Despite everything, we found the action plan prepared by CIDA to be very encouraging. It contains important aspects. Things appear to be moving. However, we did point out in the report that many good intentions had been expressed in the past, but that a certain number of them had never materialized. It will therefore be important to ensure that these good intentions yield results. That is why we are encouraging the committee to closely monitor the progress that will be achieved by CIDA as it implements its plan.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Ms. Biggs, do you have any closing thoughts you want to leave with us?

[Margaret Biggs]

I would just underscore what Mr. Flageole has said. I think it's important that CIDA—now that we have some clear direction of priorities—institutionalize and implement in a systemic and consistent way the kinds of management practices that are expected and that I believe we're putting into place. So that's why we feel very comfortable with the comments that have been made by the Auditor General. We feel we're making good progress on them. We think we have a good story, sir, and I think in 12 months, hopefully, we'll have an even better story to show you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

On behalf of all members of the committee, I want to thank you very much for your appearance here today. There is a possibility the committee may want you back, but that's up to the steering committee. It certainly won't happen this year anyway. That's for sure; I can guarantee that. Anyway, I want to thank you.

Before I adjourn, I just want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas. Enjoy your holidays. This is the last meeting of the committee for 2009.

The meeting is adjourned.