Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 5th, 2010

[The Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe (Eglinton—Lawrence, Lib.)), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

This is meeting number 25 and we're operating under Standing Order 108(3)(g) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 30, 2010--chapter 4, “Sustaining Development in the Northwest Territories”, of the spring 2010 report. That's the spring report of the Auditor General, not the one that's already been advertised for two weeks from now.

We're pleased today to have with us, from the Office of the Auditor General, Madam Sheila Fraser, the Auditor General; Scott Vaughan, Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, all under that same department; and Mr. Frank Barrett.

Welcome, Madam and colleagues.

From the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, we have Michael Wernick, deputy minister; and Patrick Borbey, assistant deputy minister of northern affairs. From the Department of the Environment, we have Mr. Paul Boothe, deputy minister. From the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development, we have Ian Shugart, deputy minister. And from the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, we have Madame Nicole Jauvin, deputy minister and president.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for being with us. We'll get to our presentations, which, as per practice, are five minutes per each of the presenters. Although, Madam Fraser, it's not five minutes for each of you. It's five minutes for you and five minutes for the next, etc.

I'm pleased to be at this particular meeting because we're going to be talking about a very important region of the country, the north, often forgotten by so many people, not very well known by the rest. As one of my staffers pointed out to me, given the Auditor General's report, we now discover that there are actually more people, for the first time in history, than there are caribou, as an indicator of so many other things that are happening in terms of economic activity, environmental impact, and the human resources development side of the indigenous populations.

I know you're going to be talking about all of those--not specifically you, Madam Fraser, but the others together, and we look forward to your presentations.

Without further ado,

Ms. Fraser, you have the floor.

[Sheila Fraser, Auditor General of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We thank you for this opportunity to discuss our office's work related to chapter 4 of our spring 2010 report, entitled “Sustaining Development in the Northwest Territories”.

As you mentioned, I am accompanied today by Scott Vaughan, Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, and Frank Barrett, principal responsible for this audit.

The federal government has a mandate to promote political and economic development in the Northwest Territories and to protect the environment. Our audit looked at whether responsible federal departments have laid the foundations for sustainable and balanced development in the Northwest Territories. Our audit work was completed in November of 2009.

The audit focused on whether Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, Environment Canada, and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada had adequately implemented key measures to prepare for sustainable and balanced development. These measures included settling comprehensive land claim agreements and self-government agreements, establishing and implementing a regulatory system that protects the environment, and supporting appropriate economic development and skills training programs for aboriginal peoples in the Northwest Territories.

Comprehensive land claim agreements and self-government agreements set out governance rights and the ownership of land and resource rights. These agreements help to provide a level of certainty and predictability for business, industry, communities, and governments. Almost all of the Northwest Territories either lies within settled land claim areas or is the subject of ongoing negotiations.

At the time of our audit four land claim agreements had been finalized. One of them, the Tlicho agreement, was also a self-government agreement. Four other land claim agreements and ten self-government agreements were under negotiation. We found that Indian and Northern Affairs Canada had made constructive efforts to negotiate these agreements and had followed the established processes for their negotiation. As well, the department had used alternative approaches when negotiations appeared to be stalled. While much remains to be done, in our view the efforts to settle land claim and self-government agreements represent a significant achievement and an important step toward sustainable and balanced development in the Northwest Territories.

However, we also found difficulties with the annual funding process by which INAC supports aboriginal communities to enter into self-government negotiations. The nature of this process makes it difficult for communities to receive funding at the beginning of the fiscal year within which it must be spent. On average, the agreements we looked at were signed more than six months after the beginning of a fiscal year and several were signed in the last month before the agreement expired. First nations officials told us that this situation has resulted in overdraft charges and penalties, damaged business relationships, delays in meeting payroll, and the loss of experienced staff. These issues can affect first nations' abilities to participate in negotiations.

Mr. Chair, we also looked at the environmental regulatory system. Protecting the environment is important, particularly because aboriginal communities in the Northwest Territories depend on wildlife, water, and land for subsistence and for economic development opportunities. We examined whether INAC and Environment Canada had established and implemented an adequate regulatory system in the Northwest Territories. We found that in regions with settled land claim agreements there are systems and structures that support land use plans and provide a means of adequate consultation with communities.

In regions without comprehensive land claim agreements in place, however, there is uncertainty about aboriginal title to the land, how it may be used, and who should be consulted to make development decisions.

Moreover, in regions without settled land claims, we noted a lack of specific mechanisms for developing land use plans. Without a formal land use plan, development decisions must be made on a case-by-case basis. Decisions related to project approvals may therefore take longer because it has not been determined where different types of development should take place and what conditions should be applied.

Indian and Northern Affairs Canada also has specific responsibilities for monitoring the cumulative impact of development. This information is important because it provides co-management boards with environmental information to support informed decision making on development proposals. We examined whether Indian and Northern Affairs Canada had established priorities for monitoring cumulative impact and had implemented a plan to do so. We also examined whether Environment Canada had supported Indian and Northern Affairs Canada in these responsibilities.

We found that, 11 years after receiving a mandate to do so, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada had not yet put in place a program to monitor cumulative impact. Similarly, funding for Environment Canada's program that would support cumulative impact monitoring ended in 2007. As a result, neither department had implemented this program.

Mr. Chair, our audit also examined skills training and economic development programs for aboriginal communities. We examined two Human Resources and Skills Development Canada programs aimed at supporting skills training. We also looked at four Indian and Northern Affairs Canada programs aimed at supporting economic development for aboriginal peoples in the Northwest Territories.

We found that Human Resources and Skills Development Canada had established clear objectives and targets for both programs we examined and that it had reported on progress toward their short-term objectives. However, the department had not assessed the progress these programs had made toward their longer term objective regarding sustainable employment for aboriginal peoples.

We found that Indian and Northern Affairs Canada's economic development programs did not have clear objectives. Instead, the programs shared a number of broad objectives that were both general and vague. We also found that Indian and Northern Affairs Canada did not monitor its programs' performance or review information reported by funding recipients. During our audit, the federal government established the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency and transferred to it the delivery of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada's economic development programs for the Northwest Territories. We recommend that CanNor take action to improve these programs.

Overall, we concluded that Indian and Northern Affairs Canada and Environment Canada had not adequately implemented key measures designed to prepare for sustainable and balanced development in the Northwest Territories. We made eight recommendations, most of which were addressed to INAC. INAC, Environment Canada, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, and CanNor have agreed with all of our recommendations. The committee may wish to ask the departments for their action plans and about the actions they have taken to date.

Mr. Chair, this concludes my opening statement. My colleagues and I would be pleased to answer any questions that committee members might have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Thank you very much, Madam Fraser.

Before we get into questions and answers, we'll go on to Mr. Michael Wernick, Deputy Minister of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

[Michael Wernick, Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will try to be brief so that we can get to questions.

It's always a pleasure to be here and engage with parliamentarians on important issues. Indeed, the issues that are raised in this particular chapter have been discussed recently with two other committees of parliamentarians. The House committee on aboriginal affairs and northern development looked at this in June and the House committee on environment and sustainable development looked at it in May. Some of you may have had the benefit of those conversations as well.

I'm here to assure you that INAC takes the Auditor General's recommendations regarding its role in the Northwest Territories very seriously indeed, as we do all chapters. All Auditor General chapters and all audit findings are monitored very closely by the department's audit committee, and there's a follow-up process for making sure that people are pursuing the commitments in these action plans. We have developed a formal action plan to address the recommendations in the report. We provided copies to the committee in advance. Rather than go through it item by item, we'd be happy to take questions after the presentations.

As often an issue at this committee is coordination across federal departments, and as you acknowledged by inviting four accounting officers to appear at the committee this morning, there is a responsibility for implementing key measures across several departments.

I do want to emphasize, Mr. Chairman, that there is coordination and accountability through mechanisms such as a deputy ministers committee that I chair, and assistant deputy minister committees that Mr. Borbey chairs. We work closely with other federal departments and agencies to make sure that we sustain development in the Northwest Territories.

Of course it's not exclusively a federal responsibility. That's why we have to work very closely with the northern public governments and aboriginal governments. Some of the recommendations touch on that.

In terms of the pace and rhythm of development in the north, there are things we have more control over and things we have less control over. Government can't control the world price of oil or commodities, nor can we control the negotiating position of people who are across the table with us at various tables. However, the federal government does play a central role in ensuring that a strong and effective regulatory system is in place so that all players—private sector, territorial and aboriginal governments—can carry out their responsibilities in regard to development in the Northwest Territories. We work to provide territorial and aboriginal governments, in particular, with the tools they need to participate in these regulatory processes.

The Government of Canada, after this report was concluded, tabled an action plan on northern regulatory regimes. It was announced by Minister Strahl in May 2010, and it builds on previous efforts to create a strong and prosperous north that realizes resource potential while at the same time safeguarding environmental and cultural heritage.

It's a key component in the overall northern strategy of the government. The 2010 budget action plan, just this spring, identified the north regulatory processes as a priority. There was increased investment in environmental monitoring, both in the Northwest Territories, which is a subject of this report, and Nunavut.

Through this year's budget the government committed $11 million over two years for the streamlining of regulatory regimes in the north and more than $8 million over two years for community-based environmental monitoring and reporting on baseline data collection.

The recent announcement, just this summer, of support for increased research and monitoring to inform offshore exploration activities in the Beaufort Sea, just off the Northwest Territories mainland, also demonstrates a proactive approach to sustainable economic development. The Beaufort Sea initiative will address all regional concerns and provide information that will assist in the planning for future oil and gas activities in the offshore.

Beyond and above those specific funding agreements for this initiative and the ones that were referred to in budget 2010, the federal government of course transfers very significant funding directly to the public government in the Northwest Territories every year. To give you a sense of the scope of that, in the current fiscal year the Government of the Northwest Territories will receive over $1 billion in transfer payments, targeted support, and trust funds, which is an increase over previous years.

Those resources provide a foundation for the public government in the north to develop initiatives to sustain development in the territories, but we need to work together and focus on increasing the on-the-ground capacity, so the territorial governments and aboriginal governments have the tools to support and implement these initiatives.

With these measures, public and aboriginal governments in the north will be better equipped to assume their part in sustainable development in the north. For example, and this is a subject in the report, they will have the tools needed to develop modern land use planning. The federal government agrees that land use planning is a tool for balancing investment and development opportunities with environmental stewardship and community goals. We will be providing the support to aboriginal and territorial governments in this process.

By investing in the regulatory regimes and working to implement the action plan on northern regulatory regimes, the federal government intends to ensure strong, capable northern regimes that will reassure northerners and all Canadians and our international partners that development will take place, but in a responsible and sustainable manner.

Our specific action plan from INAC will allow us to respond to a number of the recommendations in the Auditor General's report, and we can touch on that later. And as I mentioned, you'll find those in the action plan that was submitted to the committee. We'll work with our partner departments along the table with me to address the recommendations. We play a chef d'orchestre role, coordinating federal departments and agencies on the northern strategy, and we accept that coordination responsibility and hope we can discharge it. We're committed to seeing the Northwest Territories, as you alluded, Mr. Chairman, realize its full and true potential as an economically healthy, prosperous, and secure region of Canada.

Merci beaucoup.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Thank you very much, Mr. Wernick.

I now give the floor to Mr. Paul Boothe, from the Department of the Environment.

[Paul Boothe, Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Did I pronounce that right?

[Paul Boothe]

That's good.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm here today on behalf of Environment Canada and in particular to speak about recommendation 4.62, where the Auditor General says:

Environment Canada should support Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC) in identifying the information requirements for cumulative impact monitoring, and for planning and implementing programs to monitor cumulative impact in the Northwest Territories (NWT).

Our role in this is primarily as scientists, and Environment Canada has over 1,500 scientists working on environmental issues across the country.

First I want to say Environment Canada accepts the recommendation of the Auditor General, recognizing that INAC is the lead in land management authority in the north, and thus the lead department responsible for this monitoring. We look forward to working with them in implementing the recommendation.

Environment Canada agrees with the Auditor General that effective management of cumulative impacts is critical to ensuring environmental sustainability in the north. To fulfill this goal, Environment Canada conducts environmental research and monitoring in the north as well as the rest of Canada in areas of water, weather, ice conditions, air quality, wildlife, and protected areas. I'd be happy to talk about some examples of that research later in the question period if asked.

Environment Canada has been an active participant in the cumulative impact monitoring program since its inception ten years ago. As noted by Mr. Wernick, the cumulative impact monitoring program was provided with additional resources in budget 2010, and Environment Canada will work with other partners to design and implement the program as it enters its next phase.

In addition to the cumulative impact monitoring program, Environment Canada will work with INAC and other partners to support the targeted science program under the Beaufort regional environmental assessment initiative. This program will provide important information for assessing cumulative impacts of oil and gas development in the NWT. Environment Canada will work with partners to ensure that its science is incorporated through our engagement on scientific communities, with data-sharing, aligning research objectives where appropriate, and especially utilizing research partnerships.

Environment Canada is also playing an active role in supporting sustainable development in the NWT. We work with the land and water boards established under the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the Inuvialuit Final Agreement to ensure that the best available information and science is included in discussions of cumulative impacts and is available to support decision-making.

Mr. Chairman, in conclusion, we agree that effective management of cumulative impacts is critical in ensuring environmental sustainability, and we're committed to working with INAC and our other partners in the NWT to plan and implement cumulative impact monitoring programs.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Thank you, Mr. Boothe.

We'll go immediately to Mr. Ian Shugart, Deputy Minister, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development.

[Ian Shugart, Deputy Minister, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

HRSDC has an important history of working with the government and aboriginal communities of the NWT. We acknowledge that the territorial government and aboriginal communities are best placed to design and deliver programs and services that meet their unique needs and priorities. We will continue to work with them to help ensure that all Canadians in the NWT, including aboriginal people, benefit from economic development and employment opportunities.

In support of that objective, we fund a number of programs and initiatives that contribute to the development of the labour force. Some of these relate specifically to aboriginal peoples. Chapter 4 of the Auditor General's spring 2010 report, as you've heard, looked at two of those programs: the aboriginal human resource development strategy and the aboriginal skills and employment partnership program.

Ms. Fraser's report noted that HRSDC had established clear objectives and targets for these two initiatives and that we're reporting on those objectives. It also suggested that we work with aboriginal groups and the government of the NWT to assess the impact of aboriginal skills training programs to ensure that they're leading to improvements in the skills and employment prospects of aboriginal people over time. That recommendation is one we agree with. We acknowledge that the longer-term impact has not to this point been adequately assessed. Let me take a minute to outline what we are doing to address this issue.

On April 1 of this year, the department launched the new aboriginal skills and employment training strategy, with funding of approximately $1.6 billion over five years. This new program is our flagship aboriginal labour market program, and it's the successor to the aboriginal human resources development strategy that was assessed in the Auditor General's report.

ASETS, the short form of that program, focuses on three new strategic priorities: supporting demand-driven skills development; fostering partnerships with the private sector and the provinces and territories; and placing an emphasis on accountability and results. Through these priorities we are strengthening our ability to assess the impact of skills development and training activities. Under this program, we will be working with aboriginal service delivery organizations to develop strategic business plans that set out skills development and training activities and targets. The strategic business plans will include comprehensive plans for the short, medium, and long term with a focus on developing partnerships and on demonstrating employment outcomes.

The new strategic business planning process will also be supported by enhanced data collection and reporting. We've streamlined and identified more appropriate indicators and outcomes so that we can measure them and better demonstrate the difference the program is making. These measures will contribute to a reporting system that improves the communication of successes from these investments over time.

In support of aboriginal service delivery organizations, HRSDC will also be producing regular analytical reports to measure program effectiveness. These analytical reports will be shared with the aboriginal service delivery organizations on an ongoing basis, which will improve their capacity to undertake their own analysis and to tailor programming based on local labour market information.

Together these measures outlined in our action plan will improve the department's ability to assess the impact of aboriginal skills and training activities on an ongoing basis.

Let me also emphasize that we have tried to be responsive to economic conditions as they have changed. Under the economic action plan, support for the aboriginal skills and employment partnership program was increased by $100 million. Let me assure the public accounts committee that we will continue to work with aboriginal communities and our partners to assess the long-term impact and to ensure that programs are leading to improvements over time, because we are committed to helping aboriginal people get the skills and training they need to take full advantage of the economic activities and opportunities in the north.

Thank you very much, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Thank you, Mr. Shugart.

Madame Nicole Jauvin, deputy minister and president, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency.

[Nicole Jauvin, Deputy Minister and President, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to join my colleagues here today to speak to the Auditor General's recommendations regarding economic development in the Northwest Territories. I too will keep my comments brief.

Committee members are no doubt aware that, while the audit was being conducted, the government was in the process of creating the new Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, or CanNor for short. The audit report acknowledges this and observes that aboriginal economic development programs would be delivered by CanNor in the territories in the future. The report makes a recommendation for the agency that relates to these programs.

We have drafted an action plan to address it. This action plan is developed around the new Federal Framework for Aboriginal Economic Development (under the aegis of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada). This framework is the result of consultation and dialogue with aboriginal groups across the country.

This fall Indian and Northern Affairs Canada is conducting engagement sessions on the national programs that will be delivered under the new framework. CanNor has been working closely with colleagues at INAC to ensure that the concerns of northern aboriginal stakeholders are heard in this process. Engagement sessions have been held in Iqaluit and Whitehorse--I had an opportunity to participate in this session just last week--and a third session is planned for Yellowknife in November.

There are clear strategic objectives for the overall framework, and these are very relevant to aboriginal economic development across the north. We believe this responds to the audit recommendation directed to CanNor that a strategic approach to economic development should guide program delivery in the Northwest Territories.

The audit report also calls for coordination of program delivery. CanNor, as the only federal department with headquarters in the north, is in a unique position to do this. We're on the ground, and we are the only federal organization with a mandate that is focused exclusively on the north. This helps strengthen our program delivery.

In delivering our own programs and assisting in coordinating those of other departments, we leverage our strengths and we try to ensure that the comprehensive delivery process achieves more than the sum of the individual program measures.

We're confident that our delivery of programs under the federal framework for aboriginal economic development will grant us new opportunities to leverage federal investments to achieve success in further strengthening northern economic development.

With respect to performance management, I would also note that our action plan includes the development of a performance management framework, which has been completed and has already been approved by the Treasury Board Secretariat.

Finally, and to echo the comments of my colleague Mr. Wernick, CanNor has also acted quickly to support the federal action plan to improve northern regulatory regimes. The Northern Projects Management Office, (NPMO) offers a single window for proponents of major development projects working with federal regulatory and environmental assessment processes in the north. Modeled after the Major Project Management Office which is part of Natural Resources Canada, NPMO aims to improve the timeliness, predictability, and transparency of regulatory decisions in the north by coordinating the review of project proposals. We have high expectations that this important initiative will make a real difference in the north.

CanNor is committed to economic and community development in the Northwest Territories and across the north. We welcome opportunities to work with federal, territorial, and aboriginal partners in the pursuit of this goal.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Thank you, Madame Jauvin.

Just before I go to my colleagues on both sides of the table--I understand, Monsieur D'Amours,

you are the first on the list—I have a question.

It's a little bit rhetorical, but perhaps you want to address it as well. I'm wondering who the chef d'orchestre is going to be in the north. It's something that's on my mind and maybe we can talk about it later.

Monsieur D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I thank you, Ms. Fraser, as well as those accompanying you for being here with us today. I would also like to thank the departmental and organizational representatives.

I will begin with something that you mentioned, Ms. Fraser. It concerns the implementation, the signing of agreements. I am looking at your comments and I find that they are quite alarming. We see that some agreements are signed at the end of the agreement period or smack in the middle of the fiscal year, when we would expect that the organizations that had tabled the applications should be in a position to carry out their projects, to implement things for people, in this case in the north. But they are not able to know in advance what will happen to them. Currently, this would seem to be a trend within the government. We have seen this phenomenon elsewhere, for example in the case of Official Languages Support Programs. Today, we see that this is also affecting assistance programs for the Canadian north.

We can only ask if the government's objective is to offer the least possible while giving the impression of offering a great deal. Agreements are signed after six months, and the implication is that certain communities will be short of money because they will be short of time. In the end, it will be the citizens of those regions who will have to pay the price, because they will not be able to take advantage of specific support programs.

Do you agree?

[Sheila Fraser]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Here, we examined the funding of negotiation processes, but we did not study other projects that could be funded by the federal government in this chapter specifically. The problem is caused by the fact that this is annual funding. Year after year, the funding has to be reviewed and approvals obtained. There are certain requirements, including I believe that of producing an audited financial statement from the previous year. It obviously takes some time to obtain these documents, then the department must proceed with the approval, which slows down the granting of the funding to aboriginal people for the negotiations.

As a result, we recommended that the department reconsider the possibility of granting multi-year funding and ensure that aboriginal people obtain more certain funding that would cover several years, so that they will not be obliged to assume interest costs as well as the other difficulties that I mentioned in my opening statement.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Ms. Fraser.

You stated that Environment Canada's program to monitor cumulative impact ended in 2007. No doubt Mr. Boothe will be able to provide us with more details on this issue. In order to evaluate the cumulative impact, we need to gather data and establish the future impacts. We are more or less repeating this whole discussion with respect to the Canadian census.

I am also taking a look at your notes, Mr. Boothe. We can read, as you stated earlier, that “Environment Canada will work with other contributors to the design and implementation of the program”. Federal funding expired in 2007. Perhaps you could provide us with some details about the way that this program ended, about how information can be added year after year, and about the other contributors.

Is your department interested in finding outside sources of money in order to compensate for the financial shortfall of the federal government?

[Paul Boothe]

Thank you for your question.

Mr. Chairman, I guess I think the important thing to point out here is that more money for impacts monitoring was included in budget 2010, but throughout the period, Environment Canada scientists and Environment Canada have continued to fund monitoring and research throughout the north. There's always the question, as the north is so vast, of your having to make decisions about how you target the places where you are going to focus your monitoring, and some of that comes from trying to anticipate where development is likely to occur next. But Environment Canada has continued to monitor. We have long-term monitoring programs, both on the wildlife side and the pollution side, that have been ongoing since the cumulative impacts monitoring program began about ten years ago.

So I think the answer is that we welcome this additional funding, but we have largely been able to keep our monitoring going on a regular basis over the years for the north.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

You have time to ask one final, very brief question.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Boothe, it is clearly indicated that Environment Canada's program to monitor the cumulative impact came to an end in 2007. Could we conclude from this that you are now engaged in doing a much more general rather than specific assessment of the situation in the northern regions and that it is therefore much more difficult to follow? The circumstances required you to make these necessary changes in these regions.

[Paul Boothe]

I think we had to make decisions in the interim period to ensure that we were able to support the monitoring programs, and we were able to do that. But with the new funding announced in budget 2010, I think we're in a good position to support the monitoring that will continue to be needed.

I should say that it's not just monitoring by Environment Canada scientists, but that we also provide scientific advice to other groups, including other departments and Northwest Territories and aboriginal groups who are contributing to this effort in the north.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Madame Faille.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, you zeroed in on a significant problem that becomes obvious, I believe, when you take a look at the action plans and the statements that have been made.

I am, to a certain extent, trying to understand the official commitments made by the various departments whose representatives are appearing before us today. It would appear that the Northern Economic Development Agency has made some commitments with respect to the development of the Northwest Territories. In other instances, the representatives talk about cooperation, determination. Here it says “Indian and Northern Affairs Canada is committed to helping the Northwest Territories realize its true potential as an economically healthy, prosperous and secure region”. This is not the first time that we discuss sustainable development for the aboriginal territories. We always make the same observation, namely, the difficulty of coordination.

I would first of all like to ask the Auditor General whether she has noted any tangible commitments made to the aboriginal communities by the various departments. How do you explain the fact that financing continues to arrive late, at the beginning of the fiscal year? Have you received any indication that this situation has been resolved in the short term?

[Sheila Fraser]

Mr. Chair, I think that it may be preferable to put these questions to the departments concerned. We saw that action plans had been prepared. If everything is implemented, that will mean that the vast majority of our recommendations are being followed. However, we are well aware of the fact that commitments are often made, but that follow-through depends on funding, in particular. We have seen this in the case of the cumulative impact monitoring program. Programs are implemented and are then stopped due to a lack of funding. It would perhaps be appropriate to ask the departments concerned whether they have adequate funding to be able to take the requisite environmental action.

There is also the whole issue of consultation with the aboriginal people in the regions where there is no co-management as well as the monitoring of commitments made by development companies.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I would like to know your observations with respect to the file review and I would also like to ask the departmental representatives a more specific question.

Has the problem been resolved? Have you completed an in-depth analysis of the long-term impact of development in the aboriginal communities? Anyone can answer. Someone from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development could perhaps begin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Mr. Wernick.