I do challenge the chair.
Evidence of meeting #29 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fraser.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #29 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fraser.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
Okay. Then I'm going to ask whether there are those around the table who agree that I can finish asking my question or not.
12:45 p.m.
An hon. member
Unbelievable.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON
Mr. Chair, in the spirit of cooperation, if the chair can very quickly finish, then we can discuss this in committee business. I think out of respect for the Auditor General, we can have a better discussion that will be respectful to all colleagues.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Well, then, I'm going to continue asking questions.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON
Let the chair finish. That would be my humble recommendation.
12:45 p.m.
An hon. member
Chair's prerogative?
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
Auditor General, I think you were using the concept of lowest-cost compliant, which is the policy that says we know what we need, we'll take it off the shelf. What you described was a situation where, if I might use the example, you have a Chevy and then you want to soup it up. If you know, when you're putting in that policy, that you want the end result, then you should have the end result in your first assessment. That's not, in your estimation, an appropriate process to be labelled under the umbrella of a lower-cost compliant? Is that what I should understand?
12:45 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I guess if you know the extent of modifications and you are able to accurately assess the costs related to that, yes, but I think these are very complex acquisitions. As we saw in one case, it took three years to actually specify the requirements, so it is very unlikely I think at the initial stage that there could have been a good estimation of what those costs would be. I'm not even sure that they really knew all of the modifications that would be required as things evolved over time.
I think there needs to be a greater recognition given to the complexity and the difficulties associated with these kinds of acquisitions and perhaps a different procedure put in place for them.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
Okay. Thank you, Madam. There, that was brief.
We are now at the end of our meeting, and we're going to adjourn for a couple of moments until we go into the business section.
Madam, thank you very much. I know we're going to see you here again soon.
12:45 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Actually, Chair, if I could just mention, unfortunately, I haven't informed the committee previously about some of the international boards and committees I'm on. So I will not be before the committee during the month of November, but my very capable colleagues will present the reports for committee. We look very much forward to working with the committee in dealing with some of these issues.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
You all have before you the 11th report of what happened in our steering committee, in both official languages. It is being distributed now if you don't have it.
While it's being distributed, one of the discussions concerned the sheet on priorities by individual members. There was some discussion around waiting until today to have that submitted. We said that's fine. So the earlier you can have that sheet for us, for the clerk, the better.
Mr. Rafferty, you probably don't have it, but your colleague will.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
Okay. We are going to have to vacate this place because there's another committee here in five minutes.
The report that you have before you is as you read it. The clerk has already made contact with all three departments. The Treasury Board people are available on Tuesday. We do not yet have a response on the availability of DND and Public Works. As per the discussion on the steering committee, we're trying to accommodate some of the availability of these departments on either Tuesday or Thursday, leaving open the possibility of having DND here for more than one meeting.
Questions?
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Mr. Chair, the understanding was that it was up to the committee at this particular time to decide on how many meetings we needed the witnesses. If it is one or if it's more, we decide based on the evidence and the testimony and the will of the members at that time.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON
A quick point of clarification, since we passed the committee report, on the status of the motion I presented last Thursday. Based on the motion, five working days were allocated for a response. That would be by yesterday that we should have received a response. Can you provide any update or clarification on that, because I haven't received anything in my office on it?
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joe Volpe
The clerk has, in fact, received some communications from Public Works. They said they had some concerns. The clerk responded with, “Okay, whatever those concerns are, give them to me in writing so I can relay them to the committee.” She has not received them yet, but they gave an indication that they would communicate this afternoon.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON
Well, again, my understanding is there seems to be a bit of ambiguity in that response and a bit of a delay. I don't understand the logic in that. One way or the other, I'd like a response.
If it's okay with the other members, because we did vote for it, in the spirit of the motion to get further clarification as quickly as possible for the reason for the delay...we can then proceed with it accordingly.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Actually, as we mentioned previously when we were debating the motion, the department had already agreed to a request to provide us with that information last June. Therefore, I don't understand why there are problems today except that all of a sudden, public attention has been drawn to this. Last June—it may not have been in the exact form of the wording of the motion—we had requested these contracts. So there wasn't supposed to be a problem because at that time, the deputy minister had agreed to provide us with the information.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Mr. Chair, I was just going to say it sounds very reasonable, what they have responded to the clerk. They said they're going to get back this afternoon, or tomorrow?
