Public Accounts Committee on March 1st, 2011

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I would assume that your fundamental role, in being made commissioner, was to take this transition and make sure this transition occurs. This was the individual who was tasked internally.... As an assistant commissioner, he was in charge of the change management team. So are you telling me that you did not read the reports that he produced?

[Commr William Elliott]

Well, I'm sorry, without seeing the report, I can't recall specifically whether I read the report.

I work very closely with Mr. Clark, and had ongoing dealings with him throughout the period when he led our change management team. He reported directly to me. We had reports regularly at the senior executive committee from Mr. Clark. There would have been a number of reports on a variety of subjects. I just don't know about the specific report.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay.

Could you table with us the reports, the specific reports that he wrote to the change management team about the status of the implementation of the changes required in the RCMP? That would be tremendous.

[Commr William Elliott]

Okay...again, I don't--

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[Commr William Elliott]

--recall specifically. I mean, we dealt with issues on sort of an ongoing basis.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Oh, thank you for agreeing to table them, and then we'll take a look at some of the issues that may have been raised there.

I'd like to move on to another topic.

[Commr William Elliott]

With respect, Mr. Chairman--

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

One of the--

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Excuse me; the commissioner would like a clarification.

[Commr William Elliott]

--I'm not sure what it is that is being requested with respect to documentation.

I'm happy to table any relevant documentation, but as I sit here, I don't know what specific documentation there is. I will certainly be happy to table whatever relevant information there is with respect to our progress. Our progress is summarized in the report that the committee already has.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, do you have a specific document that you're referring to?

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Yes; I think the commissioner has actually agreed that he will table any of the reports that Mr. Clark has written for the change management teams about the implementation of reforms. There may be a number of documents, or a number of reports, and I think those will be very helpful in doing an assessment of how we've transitioned over the last couple of years.

I'd like to move on to another question. One of the most serious allegations during our hearings here in the public accounts committee was the allegation of constructive dismissals and the culture of reprisals, fear, and authoritarianism that resulted.

You said that you work very closely with assistant commissioner Clark. What role does Mr. Clark presently fulfill?

[Commr William Elliott]

Mr. Clark is currently on medical leave. Most recently he has been on full-time language training.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Is it by his choice that at this present time he has no official duties--besides taking language training?

[Commr William Elliott]

Well, it's a requirement of his promotion to his current rank that he meet the prescribed language profile. And actually, we interrupted his language training to have him do a number of things, including leading the change management team. Our agreement with Mr. Clark from the outset was that he would do the change management team, and then he would return to full-time language training.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

So he moved on before he completed; he does not have official duties at this present time.

You said that he's on health leave. That kind of echos of something we've heard in public accounts in the past. For instance, Staff Sergeant Frizzell supposedly, initially we were told, had to leave for health reasons as well when he was conducting a criminal investigation--

[Commr William Elliott]

Mr. Chairman, I must say, I object to the innuendo and accusation inherent in the member's question.

I am not prepared to speak in detail about Mr. Clark's medical situation, but I can assure you that there is an issue there.

With respect to language training, as I said, he was promoted conditional on meeting the language profile. There is no basis to suggest that he was prematurely taken out of his position as head of the change management team. The change management team was a temporary project that ended March 31, 2010. Following that, as had been agreed to with Mr. Clark two years before, he resumed full-time language training.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you, Commissioner.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, if you would, keep your questions to facts rather than innuendo.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I'll move on to another topic.

In your role as commissioner during this critical transitional period for the RCMP, how often do you communicate with the Prime Minister or the Prime Minister's Office?

[Commr William Elliott]

I usually communicate with the Minister of Public Safety and his officials, the lead official being Mr. Baker.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

“Usually”, but you do communicate with the Prime Minister or the Prime Minister's Office, or you have since you've been commissioner?

[Commr William Elliott]

I am involved in briefings of the Prime Minister periodically. I sometimes, but rarely, am present at interdepartmental meetings where there are members of the Prime Minister's political staff. But I do not recall any direct dealings with any member of the Prime Minister's staff, certainly not on this specific subject.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

At some point last year, when speaking with several members of your senior management in regard to the implementation of a board of management, did you state something along the lines of, “It's not going to happen; the Prime Minister doesn't support it”?

[Commr William Elliott]

I never said that.