Evidence of meeting #47 for Public Accounts in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Mr. Chair, this is my time.
It's my time. I can use it the way I want.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
No, excuse me. You will not. I'll rule you out of order. We will have a quick response, and then you can ask your question.
We'll have your response, please.
5 p.m.
Commr William Elliott
By the end of the month.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you. That was easy.
This issue was the subject of a study that lasted three to four years. Three to four years later, there is still no board of management. So it has been talked about for seven years.
If this had happened in a private business, there could be two possible explanations: it could have been due to the incompetence and complacency of employees, who would have ended up being fired, or it could have been because those in charge wanted to block the process. There would have been an explanation one way or the other. A private business would not wait seven years to implement something that was essential and that everyone wanted; everyone meaning the Department of Public Safety, the RCMP and Parliament.
How long will this take, 10 years? Had there been a desire to do due diligence, it would have to have started well before the final report was, in order to figure out how the department would respond and how the RCMP would follow up. Seven years later, Mr. Baker, you are telling us that you still have several points that need verifying, and that you need time before you come up with a recommendation.
Are the committee members being taken for fools? Are parliamentarians being taken for fools? Do you take us for fools?
It's simple. If this kind of system is going to take 10 years, should we just draw a line through it, draw a big X on it, and start another project three years later?
No matter how you look at it, this will have taken 10 years. It's shameful. That would not have been acceptable in a private business. It's all very well to say that the RCMP has its unique characteristics. The Canada Revenue Agency also differs from other agencies, and many other organizations are different. However, it is unacceptable that this has taken so long and that so little has been done—so little. It is unbelievable.
I will end with that. If you would like to respond, go ahead. If not, then do not. I repeat that this is a shameful situation.
5 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety
Mr. Chair, I have to register that I take the deliberations of the public accounts committee now--and I always have in my career--extraordinarily seriously. This is important input by parliamentarians. To attribute the fact that we need time as somehow a condemnation of the work of this committee is not correct at all.
I have a job to do and I need to take the time to do that job properly. This is a big decision. I cannot send a half-baked recommendation to the minister and expect him to send that on to the central agencies and so on for the government for consideration. This is not the private sector.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Mr. Baker, why did you not demand that the RCMP provide you with information earlier?
Why are you before us today, three or four years later, telling us that nothing has been done because you have not yet received the documents from the RCMP?
Why did you not tell the RCMP that you needed its recommendations, not yesterday, not the day before yesterday, but a long time ago?
Why did you not decide to work on this issue three years ago? That is when you should have demanded those recommendations from the RCMP. Taking three to four years to deal with a file is unacceptable.
March 1st, 2011 / 5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety
Mr. Chair, I respect the RCMP commissioner. In my opinion, it is essential to have his point of view before beginning my own work.
This is out of absolute respect for the RCMP. This is a governance arrangement that will affect that institution. I must hear from them first, as should the minister. To me, it's the proper and correct thing to do.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Thank you very much, Mr. Baker.
Now we'll go to Madame Mourani, please.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Baker, did you ask the RCMP for their opinion on this? Did you make that request?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety
No. This idea of a board, as we acknowledged, has been around for a few years. Late last year, when the commissioner indicated publicly his support for it, we had some discussions and concluded that, well, before we could take that idea any further, we would need to do a comprehensive analysis of the pros and cons.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Why did you not make that request? The committee tabled its report in 2007, three years ago. Why did you not put a request in to the RCMP if you were waiting for recommendations?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety
You know, we shouldn't assume that nothing has happened in the last three years. We had a Reform Implementation Council that worked for three years. Its mandate only ended in December. We received its final report, which was made public in January. That was critical input and an important element in providing information for our consideration.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Mr. Elliott, during your time with the RCMP, during those three years, did you not think to give Mr. Baker your recommendations on this?
5:05 p.m.
Commr William Elliott
Mr. Chairman, as I indicated in my opening remarks, following the receipt of the task force report we developed a comprehensive and ambitious transformation initiative. We have been very busy. We have been doing....
We set priorities. There were some very pressing, urgent priorities. The first and foremost was to address issues relating to recruiting and vacancies--
5:05 p.m.
Commr William Elliott
--and we've had huge success in doing that.
5:05 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Mr. Chair, I would like him to stop repeating himself; I have already heard this.
5:05 p.m.
Commr William Elliott
We have a very detailed work plan. I am--
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Conservative