No, I....
Mr. Saxton, I suppose as a member of the committee it's your right to make any observation you want about any member at this table, including the chair. We come from different parties, and that is I think recognized in the composition of this committee. That's okay. If you're going to impugn my motives and my character, however, that's a different story.
I'm going to read for you and for everybody else the timeline that was followed in this process. It is of course all verifiable; I think you know you can verify it with the clerk.
The issue, as you've framed it, is all about information that was elicited for the purposes of the committee doing its job and about my involvement and my participation in that exercise, both in getting information, and then secondarily, because you mentioned his name, negotiating with Mr. Whitehall to make sure that Madame Ouimet comes forward.
I have to say that I'm not happy that you intimated that Madame Ouimet might now use this exercise in which we are engaged to renege on her commitment to come forward. I know that her lawyer is following all of these proceedings, and I hope he did not take your reflection with great weight.
I caution to add as well that I looked at the Standing Orders, which guide the activities of all committees and all members of Parliament. They are silent on the matters you raised, Mr. Saxton. So I went to O'Brien and Bosc, which is a guide for us to interpret those Standing Orders. It is also a guide for us to interpret all of the orders that this committee set for itself.
Monsieur D'Amours made reference to the rules of procedure that this committee adopted in March of last year, before I came to the committee. I noted that on the question of how to deal with documents those minutes were silent. So I then went further.
Yesterday and prior to that—because you know that I invited the law clerk to come to advise the committee, both in public and then in camera, because we wanted his advice to be advice to the committee.... This committee entertained a motion to bring the Privacy Commissioner before it. It was defeated, but I used my prerogative as chair to invite the Privacy Commissioner anyway so that we could avail ourselves of her views on any of the information we might receive.
I'm not going to interpret for members what she said. We were all present, it's on the record, and we can deal with it as individual members of Parliament.
I'll come back to the concept of what an individual member of Parliament's rights might be in the House in a moment.
Pursuant to discussions with this committee, I engaged in discussions with Mr. Whitehall, who purported to represent Madame Ouimet. I say “purported” because I wanted to verify that this was the case. I received a letter from Mr. Whitehall on February 17 and had it distributed to all colleagues immediately that same day electronically. A letter from Mr. Whitehall outlining the conditions to me, dated February 17, was distributed to all committee members on that same day.
It's interesting to note, Mr. Saxton, that this letter from Mr. Whitehall—those of you who have it before you will indulge me for repeating parts of it—says: “It has also come to our attention that the Privy Council Office has produced a departure agreement between Madam Ouimet and the government, pursuant to”, etc.
It struck me, as it should strike all other members of Parliament, that a lawyer in the public domain already had access to the information that this committee had not yet received but was about to receive, because it had to formally ask for it to receive those documents. That information, whatever information Mr. Whitehall referred to, was already in the public domain before it even came to us. Otherwise, he would not have been able to make reference to it.
Because this committee asked me to negotiate a firm date of appearance for Madame Ouimet before this committee, a letter from me was drafted. I can tell you that I passed it by the law clerk. I did that on the 25th. Committee members got it on the 28th, to allow for the weekend, because we didn't send it all out at once, but essentially there was no time lag. The moment we sent it out to Mr. Whitehall, it was sent to committee members.
A memo from the clerk of the public accounts committee to members on February 22 attached the documentation from PCO and Treasury Board and went by messenger to Parliament Hill offices. No electronic copies were provided to members; they had to go by messenger. That happened on February 22. When we got it, everybody else got it. When I say we, I mean the clerk's office.
A memo from the clerk of the public accounts committee dated February 24, 2011, attaching a second batch of documents was sent to all committee members February 24. Fifteen offices received all the documentation to which Madame Faille made reference. Fifteen offices and all of their staff received all of that information. Keep in mind that on the 17th, Mr. Whitehall already made reference to the fact that it was in distribution, but we hadn't received it yet.
A memo from the clerk of the public accounts committee dated the 24th attaching a second batch of documents was sent to all committee members on February 24. Members received that. There's a letter from PCO attached to all documentation sent to all members with respect to a particular document for which it asked some confidentiality. It asked for that, but it did not respect that confidentiality itself. It made it available to committee and to committee members and to their staff, and obviously to Mr. Whitehall. The chair took the trouble to advise all committee members, had they not seen it, to please refer to that.
I note, Mr. Saxton, you did not indicate that I breached that request. So for those who have not read those particular documents, they refer to something that Monsieur D'Amours and Madame Faille have just mentioned, but that I never mentioned.
I want also to bring to the attention of all colleagues the other documents that they have not received but for which they have received an indication that the clerk has them. That is, all the documentation that came from Status of Women Canada and from the Human Rights Commission. They are with the clerk because they are in the language of origin, contrary to the vote by this committee on the motion that demanded all correspondence be in both official languages.
We didn't say we had a mechanism in place to determine whether all of those items were going to be monitored first by the analysts so they could then distribute them to us. We asked in our motion that we all receive them in both official languages so that we could do our job.
Privy Council and Treasury Board indicated that they could not fulfill our request—all of it— for the 19th and asked for an additional week. This committee said no thank you. PCO and Treasury Board indicated in response that the 19th was a Saturday and their interpretation of the word “by” meant the 19th, not the 18th, which would have been a Friday.
Taking into account, on behalf of this committee, that it would involve difficulties in time and logistics for the clerk and her office, I indicated to the clerk on your behalf that she should instruct PCO and Treasury Board to have those documents as the very first item in the morning of the 22nd. That's why the documents appeared on the 22nd. The others didn't comply.
So the issue, Mr. Saxton, is whether we are going to deal with the flow of information to this committee for it to do its work in a vigorous fashion, or not. On that score, I think, as the chair, I've done that job thoroughly.
Mr. Kramp.