Public Accounts Committee on April 13th, 2010

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

I call this meeting to order.

Prior to introducing our guests and moving on to the meeting, a last-minute request came in to video-record this meeting today. If there is no objection, the meeting can be recorded through the House broadcasting service. We have to suspend for a moment to set it up.

There are no objections. Thank you. The meeting will suspend for a couple of minutes while we proceed.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Is that because you are in the chair?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

I can assure you it's not because I'm in the chair.

Actually, the chair has some difficulties with last-minute notices on issues such as this. Perhaps after this meeting we can take five minutes to discuss this, because I think it is important to this committee for future deliberations.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Good morning to all, and welcome to the meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(g), our order of reference today is chapter 2, “Selecting Foreign Workers Under the Immigration Program”, of the fall 2009 report of the Auditor General of Canada.

Our witnesses today are Sheila Fraser, the Auditor General; Richard Flageole, Assistant Auditor General; Suzanne Therrien, principal; Janice Charette, deputy minister, from HRSD; Andrew Kenyon, director general, temporary foreign workers directorate; Neil Yeates, deputy minister, Citizenship and Immigration; Les Linklater, assistant deputy minister, Citizenship and Immigration; and Claudette Deschênes, assistant deputy minister operations.

Prior to hearing prepared statements from our witnesses, I would like to draw the attention of the committee to a retirement from the Auditor General's office. We had one last week. Sincere thanks and gratitude for a number of years in service were expressed. Today I've been advised that Richard Flageole will be leaving and going off into the land of happy, blissful retirement status. I'm sure he will be otherwise occupied, with his energy and ambitions, as of Monday, after 35 years with the office. It's a tremendous accomplishment.

I've been told that his first hearing was on immigration. Here we are today, 35 years later, and we are still on immigration, albeit with some different timely results, I am sure, but always with investigation and contributions made by all. So let's give a wonderful reception and expression of gratitude to Richard.

[Applause]

Now I will call on our witnesses, starting with Sheila Fraser, the Auditor General.

Your opening statement, please.

[Sheila Fraser, Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for this opportunity to discuss our chapter on selecting foreign workers under the immigration program. As you mentioned, joining me at the table are Richard Flageole, Assistant Auditor General, and Suzanne Therrien, Principal, who were responsible for the audit.

Canada has an ongoing need for permanent and temporary workers with various skills, and it must compete with other countries to attract them. It is critical that the government's programs for facilitating the entry of these workers be designed and delivered to meet the needs of the Canadian labour market.

I should note that the work for this audit was completed in June 2009. We are consequently not in a position to comment on actions taken since then.

We found that Citizenship and Immigration Canada made a number of key decisions without first properly assessing the costs and benefits, risks, and potential impact of these decisions on its programs and delivery mechanisms. Some of these decisions have caused a significant shift in the types of workers being admitted to Canada. We saw little evidence that this shift was part of any well-defined strategy to best meet the needs of the Canadian labour market. CIC needs to evaluate the performance of its current programs and develop a clear vision of what each one of these is expected to contribute.

Our audit found that the inventory of applications in the federal skilled worker category had almost doubled since 2000. In December 2008, more than 620,000 people had been waiting an average of 63 months for a decision on whether they would be granted permanent residency. Measures introduced through ministerial instructions in 2008 to limit the number of new applications—for example, processing only those that meet new, more narrowly defined criteria—were not based on sufficient analysis of their potential effects. While it was still too early to assess the full impact of these measures, trends in the number of new applications received between January and June 2009 indicated that the measures might not have the desired effect.

In addition, the department's ability to reduce the inventory of old applications received prior to the introduction of new ministerial instructions, also known as the backlog, could be significantly impaired. At the time of our audit, CIC was unable to determine when this backlog would likely be eliminated or define what would be a reasonable timeframe in which to do so. Their latest estimate in 2008 indicated that the backlog might not be eliminated for another eight to 25 years. The committee may wish to ask the department what the current situation is in that regard.

In June 2009, the overall inventory, including both old and new applications, still totalled approximately 594,000. This represented a decrease of 6.5% in the overall inventory since the introduction of the ministerial instructions.

Our chapter also identified serious problems in the design and delivery of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program that is co-managed by GIC and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. For example, there was no systematic review to ensure that offers are genuine. Work permits could therefore be issued for jobs or employers that do not exist.

Furthermore, we found that there was no systematic follow-up by either CIC or HRSDC to verify that employers in Canada are complying with the terms and conditions, such as wages and accommodations, under which work permits are issued. This creates risks to program integrity and could leave many foreign workers, such as live-in caregivers and lower-skilled temporary foreign workers, in a vulnerable position.

Despite a commitment to do so following our April 2000 report, CIC had not yet implemented a quality assurance framework to obtain assurance that decisions made by its visa officers are fair and consistent.

Finally, we noted that both departments implemented programs to facilitate the recognition of foreign credentials. At the end of our audit the federal government was working with provinces and territories to develop a pan-Canadian framework for foreign qualification assessment and recognition.

Mr. Chair, we are pleased to report that CIC and HRSDC have agreed with our recommendations. They shared their action plans with us and we believe they addressed the issues raised in this chapter. The committee may wish to have both departments report on their progress and results achieved in implementing these plans, in particular regarding the completion by CIC of a visioning exercise with provinces and territories for foreign worker programs; the management by CIC of the inventory of applications, both old and new; and of the related processing times and changes made or planned to the design and delivery of the temporary foreign worker program.

Mr. Chair, this concludes our opening remarks. We would be pleased to answer any questions that committee members may have.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you, Madam Fraser.

We will now hear from our second witness today, from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, Mr. Neil Yeates, deputy minister.

[Neil Yeates, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Good morning, Mr. Chairman and thank you, Madam and gentlemen. My name is Neil Yeates, and I am Deputy Minister of Citizenship and Immigration Canada. I am joined by Les Linklater, Assistant Deputy Minister of Strategic Policy and Programs, and Claudette Deschênes, Assistant Deputy Minister of Operations, at CIC.

I would like to thank the committee for inviting me to speak. Today I will focus my brief remarks on Chapter 2 of the Auditor General's report, and afterwards, we will be happy to answer your questions.

First of all, CIC agrees with the Auditor General's recommendations related to the selection of foreign workers. In recent years my department has taken a number of positive steps to facilitate the timely arrival and fair employment of foreign workers to meet Canada's labour market needs. For example, we have increased the admission ranges for immigrants nominated by the provinces and territories so that the benefits of immigration can be distributed all across the country. The Canadian experience class helps people with recognized skills in Canada who are integrating, along with helping skilled temporary workers and international students to stay here permanently.

Changes to the Live-in Caregiver Program will now make it easier for live-in caregivers to obtain permanent residence, by making the program more flexible for them and helping to protect their rights.

And finally, the new authority for the minister to issue instructions provides a flexible tool to prioritize those applications that best support the government's goals for immigration.

In the few minutes I have left, I would just like to highlight some of our progress to date, in response to some of the Auditor General's specific recommendations.

Since we issued our “Action Plan for Faster Immigration: Ministerial Instructions” in November 2008, the backlog of federal skilled workers, those who applied before the legislative changes took effect on February 27, 2008, has been significantly reduced. It now stands at fewer than 400 persons, a reduction of almost 40% from its peak of 641,000. Including the applications we received since the changes took effect, the number of applicants awaiting a decision has been reduced by 18%. Of the final decisions rendered since the instructions took effect in November 2008, 80% have been completed in an average of seven months. This is compared to wait times of up to six years before the changes.

The first set of instructions limited skilled worker applications to 38 occupations and allowed us to make progress in managing applications. But we have still received significantly more applications than we can process or accept under the levels planned. So we are consulting broadly with stakeholders, provinces and territories, and the public to ensure instructions remain responsive to our economic needs but also help us to manage the flow of applications. An evaluation of the federal skilled worker program is now under way and a national evaluation of the provincial nomination program will begin this fiscal year. Taken together, these initiatives will lead to the development of an immigration road map over the next two years.

Recently proposed regulatory amendments to the temporary foreign worker program will clarify the roles of my department and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada and will establish specific criteria to guide the assessment of the genuineness of an employer's offer of employment to a temporary foreign worker. These changes will establish consequences for employers who fail to meet their commitments to workers and grant the government more authority to review the actions of employers and third parties acting on their behalf.

And finally, this summer we will start rolling out Release 2 of the Global Case Management System internationally. We have been using GCMS internally since 2004 to process applications for Canadian citizenship. It is already helping us to detect and prevent fraud. GCMS is a fundamental component of our service innovation agenda, and it lays the foundation for future improvements. These are just some of the ways we are working to address the Auditor General's concerns in a timely fashion.

We are ready for your questions now.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you, Mr. Yeates.

We'll now go to our last presentation, from the Human Resources and Skills Development deputy minister, Ms. Janice Charette.

[Janice Charette, Deputy Minister, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.

As the chair said, my name is Janice Charette. I'm the Deputy Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. I'm joined this morning by Andrew Kenyon, who is the director general of our temporary foreign workers directorate.

I'm pleased to be here today to speak to you about HRSDC's current and planned activities to respond to the recent audit of one element of the immigration program, the temporary foreign worker program, for which my department has certain responsibilities.

I will focus my remarks on HRSDC's responsibilities regarding the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, and I would be happy to respond to questions. This gives me the opportunity to clarify HRSDC's role with respect to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program.

The authority for the temporary foreign worker program is derived from the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and its associated regulations. The program is jointly managed by HRSDC and CIC. In terms of foreign workers, generally speaking, you could say that while CIC deals with the workers, HRSDC deals with the employer side.

Let's start with an employer who has identified the need to hire foreign workers. An employer would start the process by applying to HRSDC, largely through one of our Service Canada offices, for a labour market opinion. This is necessary before they can hire a foreign worker or get pre-approved to hire a large number of foreign workers. This labour market opinion, or LMO, is an assessment of the potential impact of hiring a foreign worker on the Canadian labour market. To ensure that LMOs reflect current labour market conditions, HRSDC implemented a policy requiring that an LMO be used to support a work permit application within six months of its issuance, after which it is no longer valid.

When assessing an application for an LMO, HRSDC and Service Canada consider whether the wages and working conditions are comparable to those offered to Canadians working in the occupation; the employer has made reasonable efforts to hire or train Canadians for the job; the foreign worker is filling a labour shortage; the employment of the foreign worker will directly create new job opportunities or help retain jobs for Canadians; the foreign worker will transfer new skills and knowledge to Canadians; and the hiring of the foreign worker will not involve a labour dispute or the employment of any Canadian worker involved in such a dispute.

Why does HRSDC have this responsibility? We're the labour market department. We have a network that allows us to monitor the local labour markets across the country. We welcomed the Auditor General's report and recommendations, and we are in agreement with the audit findings. In fact, the Auditor General's recommendations align favourably with our plans for the program's overall direction in the medium and longer terms.

As you'll recall, the Auditor General had four recommendations specific to HRSDC's responsibilities within the temporary foreign worker program: that the program be evaluated according to schedule; that HRSDC should provide a clear direction and tools to officers engaged in issuing labour market opinions and implement a quality assurance framework; that HRSDC and CIC clarify roles and responsibilities with respect to assessing employer genuineness; and that HRSDC and CIC implement mechanisms to enhance program integrity and work protections.

We continue to work on many fronts to address the Auditor General's recommendations. I would like to describe to you some of this important work, which is underway now. As recommended by the Auditor General, we continue to develop clearer directives, tools and resources to help our field officers issue labour market opinions. We are also moving forward on a quality assurance framework to improve the consistency of decision-making across Canada.

In addition, as my colleague mentioned, we're working with CIC to finalize a set of proposed amendments to the immigration and refugee protection regulations and to coordinate implementation plans in order to clarify departments' respective roles and responsibilities in assessing the genuineness of employers and job offers.

We've also signed an information-sharing agreement with CIC. This agreement will allow us to strengthen program integrity and facilitate HRSDC's compliance work by better tracking the flows of foreign workers to Canada and following up with employers to assess their compliance within program requirements.

Finally, we're undertaking a range of activities to enhance program integrity. For example, in early 2009, we introduced policies to limit the validity of labour market opinions to six months to help ensure that the flow of temporary foreign workers to Canada more closely reflects current labour market conditions.

In April 2009, we implemented a policy to revoke confirmed labour market opinions when new information comes to light that would have resulted in a negative decision.

HRSDC has launched a new initiative to assess employers' compliance with the requirements of the program and the conditions set out in the labour market opinion. We're asking employers to provide documentary evidence that they paid agreed wages and provided appropriate working conditions to foreign workers. Where non-compliance is evident and corrective action is not taken, employers will be issued a negative labour market opinion, preventing them from hiring foreign workers.

We've piloted this approach in British Columbia and Alberta and have concluded 250 reviews; 93% were found to be compliant, with only 11 employers unable or unwilling to take corrective action. Should they apply for a labour market opinion in the future, their past compliance records will result in a negative labour market opinion.

We've also signed information-sharing agreements with British Columbia, Alberta, and Manitoba. Negotiations to reach similar agreements with Saskatchewan--soon be signed--Ontario, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador are expected to conclude later this year. These agreements allow us to share information on employer violations of labour standards and information about labour market opinion applications submitted through Service Canada. These agreements are vital in helping us to improve program integrity and address instances of worker abuse or mistreatment.

We will continue to pursue other activities, over the coming months, aimed at ensuring the overall integrity of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program.

I welcome your views and questions on the Departmental Action Plan, and how HRSDC is responding to the Auditor General's recommendations in order to strengthen program integrity and worker protections. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

I thank all of our witnesses for their comments today.

As we turn to our members for questioning, I fully imagine that there's not a member here or in the House who isn't impacted to some degree by this issue. So I expect there will be some spirited questions.

We will start with Mr. Derek Lee, representing the opposition, for seven minutes, please.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Of course, as MPs we are all familiar with immigration matters. We all run immigration offices out of our constituency offices. My shop deals about 80% with immigration, and it's pretty similar in most of the urban areas.

I want to go right to HRSDC. I appreciate your earlier remarks, but I want to focus on the genuineness of job offers. My colleagues and I know there are a lot of fake jobs out there. So I want to know what HRSDC is doing--because the Auditor General has spotted this--not to deal with deficiencies in employment standards, but the actual genuineness of the job offer itself. What are you doing to assure some consistency, quality, or genuineness of those job offers?

[Janice Charette]

Thank you, Mr. Lee.

I'll speak about two particular initiatives. Following a pilot initiative, we implemented our monitoring initiative where we work with employers to do the follow-up to ensure that they comply with all of the conditions associated with the issuance of a labour market opinion and live up to the commitments they have made.

We piloted that monitoring initiative in British Columbia, Alberta, and Manitoba in 2008, and we rolled it out across the country in April 2009. We've done about 250 or so of these employer compliance reviews. In a number of cases we identified where there were weaknesses and worked with employers. In about 57 cases we worked with employers once we identified shortcomings, and they addressed the concerns we had.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

In these cases, you find the employer. I'm talking about the fakes.

[Janice Charette]

The employer compliance reviews will actually get at finding that there isn't in fact a genuine job offer.

That takes me to the second part of our initiative. I think both Mr. Yeates and I mentioned that our departments have been working together on a series of regulatory amendments. They were pre-published, and we received a significant amount of stakeholder input, which we're now in the process of looking through. They were pre-published in December, and that pre-publication period is now over. We're looking at all of the input.

The objective of these regulations is to clarify the factors that will allow us to assess the genuineness of the job offer. As part of these new regulatory authorities, we'll be able to, for example, publish the names of employers who are not living up to the conditions. That information would be available to individuals who are seeking employment in this country. The names would actually be published.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Does the fact that you hope to put in a regulatory framework that will allow you to assess genuineness mean that you're not in a position to assess genuineness now?

[Janice Charette]

It will strengthen and clarify our capacity to assess the genuineness of the job offers. As I said, we've already taken steps to do this, and this will further strengthen our authority.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Do you have any management statistics on how many fake jobs you currently find out there?

[Janice Charette]

As I said, in the employer compliance reviews we've done, we have found that 11 employers were not compliant. I don't have the statistics with me on the exact nature of the non-compliance. I'd be happy to get back to the committee.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I think the Auditor General is kind of hoping that you'll be able to make an assessment of this stuff over time. I hope the new system will do that. Good luck with that; it's important.

Now I want to turn to the immigration side and the selection of skilled workers. The Auditor General has spotted a lack of a clear, functional, effective rationale in the implementation of the selection criteria and in the bringing in of new skilled workers.

I forgive the whole system. Going back over the years, it was simply a category and people applied and lined up. Suddenly, there are 300,000, 400,000, and 500,000 people lined up as skilled workers.

Would you agree that if it takes three, four, or five years for a skilled worker to get here, it won't satisfy the labour market here? It's too late. If we need bricklayers in year one, allowing somebody to come five years later doesn't satisfy that need. Would you agree with that?

[Neil Yeates]

In a general way, yes. We are concerned about the length of the processing times. There is, of course, the option of having temporary foreign workers fill a very immediate need, and there are also the provincial nominee programs the Auditor General noted....

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Yes, sir, the provincial nominee program was good. It got you off the hook. It allowed for a fast-track process for skilled workers. That's great, and that was one of the objectives of it. But lying behind that is still the lack of a mechanism, which the Auditor General has spotted. Other than the temporary foreign worker program or the provincial nominee program, we don't have built into the system now an ability to get workers here when we need them.

Can you indicate whether you have something in the works that will allow us to do that?

[Neil Yeates]

Certainly. As the member would know, Mr. Chair, we did implement the first set of ministerial instructions with a view to having a more focused and targeted approach to the selection of foreign workers. We're currently working on developing a second set of ministerial instructions. We're consulting now with the public, stakeholders, and the provinces and territories, because as we have found, we still have a large number of applications in those 38 categories. The more we have to process, the longer it takes.

We're looking to come up with a revised set of instructions over this spring, and that will help us to really focus our efforts going forward.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

You will do it in a way that will satisfy the Auditor General. It will be something rational, something that works.

[Neil Yeates]

Well, one always hesitates to judge satisfying the Auditor General. She will decide that herself.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

We're looking at management and at a process. She looks at the whole system. We're not the immigration committee. She would be looking at a system that appears to work and has a rationale and has results you can measure.

I hope we're not just going to end up where we've been for the last 25 years, throwing Jell-o at the wall, and having great big lineups that don't meet the needs of the job market.