Public Accounts Committee on April 13th, 2010

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you, Madam Fraser.

The department may respond, please.

[Neil Yeates]

Yes. I can add to that. On GCMS, we are monitoring the project extremely carefully, given the history we've had on it. Of course, the Office of the Auditor General does their work as well.

On your second question on settlement, we are really bound by the levels plan, because we completely agree there's a limit to the number of immigrants that communities can successfully integrate and settle.

Settlement funding, which provides programming for settlement services, has nearly tripled in the past five years. We are working closely with the provinces and territories. There's an evaluation under way now on the effectiveness of our settlement programming. It'll be coming out later this year. We'll see where it takes us, but there will likely be some modifications to the way in which those programs are working at the moment.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you. That was the last question.

Mr. Saxton.

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Yeates.

One of the Auditor General's recommendations is that you develop a road map for the future of the immigration program. Can you please share with us how you're progressing on the road map?

[Neil Yeates]

Yes. We are working closely with provinces and territories to have a fairly detailed discussion on the relationship among the various immigration categories in our levels plan. As the Auditor General has noted, we're trying to better assess what the various contributions of those categories are.

As an example, one important issue is the relationship between the provincial nominee programs and the federal skilled worker programs. They're similar, but different. We need to sort out the relative contribution of each in meeting Canada's labour market needs.

In the big picture, they're developing a common vision for the immigration system. It then gets into quite detailed work. We look at our different categories, particularly for economic immigration. How do they relate to the labour market both nationally and provincially? What does it look like as a totality?

We've had those discussions over the last number of months. We're looking to make very significant progress this year. I'm bringing all of it together. We expect a lot of those thoughts to be in the 2011 levels plan that will be tabled on November 1 of this year.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Fine. Thank you.

My apologies. How could I miss Mr. Christopherson?

You have the last couple of minutes, please.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I won't be very long. I have a short question, and I admit that it's borderline picky.

On page four of Madam Charette's presentation, at the very last bullet point, the very last sentence is in terms of following up to ensure that the conditions put forward were actually complied with. It says:

We are asking employers to provide documentary evidence that they paid agreed wages and provided appropriate working conditions to foreign workers.

I understand why you would provide documentation to show that proper wages were paid. What documentation will be accepted that shows working conditions and respect for labour laws were complied with?

[Janice Charette]

I'm going to ask my colleague, Mr. Kenyon, to respond to that, please.

[Andrew Kenyon, Director General, Temporary Foreign Workers Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

We require employers to provide one payroll record, but as you mentioned, it is more difficult to verify working conditions. We require the employer to verify or demonstrate that the worker did the job that he or she was hired to do and not put onto a different task, as we often see happens. That's one of our biggest concerns, that employees are brought in and then moved on to a different job for which they were not intended to be hired.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

What about being treated decently, though, treated with respect and dignity, and being given their human rights? How do you get that on paper?

[Andrew Kenyon]

At present, until the new regulations are in place, we don't have the authority to actually do work site visits. However, we do verify with the province that this employer has not been cited for any violation of labour standards or workplace safety rules.

That's the purpose of the information-sharing agreements we put in place with the provinces. It's part of the big process. We're getting a real handle on it now, and we're actually starting to see the information flow.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Are you?

[Andrew Kenyon]

Yes. It's working well.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Good. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you, and thank you to my colleagues for your thoughtful concern and questions this morning.

I certainly thank our witnesses for appearing before us and shedding a bit of light on difficulties, and I would ask any of our witnesses if they have a few closing comments.

We'll start, please, with Madam Fraser.

[Sheila Fraser]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank the committee for their interest in this audit of what is, I think everyone would agree, a very important program. We are pleased with the response of the two departments and the action plans that have been presented.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you.

Mr. Yeates, please.

[Neil Yeates]

Very briefly, Mr. Chair, obviously we feel that the issues that have been identified by the Auditor General are critical ones. The successful operation of the immigration program is critical for Canada in terms of our future. We take our responsibilities here very seriously and will look forward to following up on this action plan very diligently.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you.

Madam Charette.

[Janice Charette]

Thank you very much to you, Mr. Chair, and to members of the committee for your thoughtful questions today.

As I think you can tell, we're trying to take a number of steps across a range of areas to improve these programs, working in partnership both with our federal colleagues but also with provinces and territories. Thank you for the recognition of the progress we've made and for the tough questions and holding us to account for what we've committed to do.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Fine. Thank you, witnesses.

The witnesses may be excused.

I have just one small point I'd like to bring to my colleagues here.

The chair was uncomfortable with a last-minute request for the proceedings today to be televised. Given the circumstances and the timing of this, I think this is an issue that should come before either a committee of the whole or the steering committee so that we can establish a clear precedent.

There appears to be one rule, which is obviously stated by the clerk on that, yet under the practical guide there appears to be another interpretation. The chair just did not want to be put in a position where he would have had to make a decision on that. So I would suggest that this come before a committee of the whole when the regular chair returns, or it could go to the steering committee, or both.

Could I get your thoughts on that?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Chair, to me, it would be a prime issue to throw to the steering committee to chat through and make a recommendation back to the whole.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Is everybody comfortable with that going to the steering committee?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

That's it. Fine. Thank you very kindly.

The meeting is adjourned.