Public Accounts Committee on Dec. 14th, 2011

[RAdm Andrew Smith]

Correct. Some 92 people were in that section in October 2006, before the plan came into place. We have grown it incrementally and systemically over time to a total of 232 people.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Okay. And those people are full-time people—

[RAdm Andrew Smith]

Yes, they are.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

—in the public service of Canada.

I also want to clarify something that I believe Vice-Admiral Bruce Donaldson indicated. We were talking about 15,000 to 20,000 reservists. You clarified that there's a trend to move that number down, to about 8,000 to 10,000, and that it's in the process of being reduced.

[VAdm Bruce Donaldson]

What I indicated, ma'am, is that at our peak we had 15,000 reservists. That reflected the high level of operational activity. We currently have between 8,000 and 9,000 full-time, although it fluctuates during the year. We're seeking to reduce that significantly, perhaps by as much as one half in order to come to a steady state as we come out of a high operational tempo. We'd like to have a steady state of full-time reservists, which will then fluctuate with training during the year and that type of thing, and really put our investments into an operationally ready part-time reserve as originally intended.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I believe my colleague Bev Shipley spoke about your plan to reduce the backlog. We have a serious backlog. The Auditor General said that next year's opinion likely won't be clean because of the ongoing backlog, but you have a plan in place. What's a ballpark estimate, according to the plan, for when the backlog will be addressed?

[RAdm Andrew Smith]

Based on the current staff resources in place, the 232 people that we have--

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Plus there are the potential 50 term employees.

[RAdm Andrew Smith]

Fifty additional people would take it up to 280 people. But based on 230 today, our best assessment is that it would take until 2017 to clear that backlog.

Now in fairness I need to say that as the processing time comes down from 150 to 100 hours and to 80 hours and 50 hours, there is always the potential for that to go faster, and that is the expectation. But it will be very much be a matter of “see as we go” as that processing time per file is reduced.

[VAdm Bruce Donaldson]

If I may add something, Mr. Chairman, the employees are actually paid for by the pension plan itself. When we talk about the administrative costs of the plan, we're mindful of having a responsible level—

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Oh, yes, there's no question.

[VAdm Bruce Donaldson]

—balancing the desire to clear the backlog and the desire to ensure the integrity of the plan. So on an ongoing basis, as I said, we're reviewing the value for money of adding people to clear the backlog against the costs to the administration.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

So, Mr. Fonberg, why did you choose to hire permanent staff to solve a temporary problem?

[Robert Fonberg]

Let me turn it back over to Dave or Kevin. Do you want to answer that question?

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

But you're the deputy minister, sir. There must have been a governance process in place. There must have been a discussion at very senior levels.

I'm just curious, because I view this as a very important issue to address but a temporary problem.

[Robert Fonberg]

I absolutely agree, Mr. Chairman. If you would like a substantive answer to the question--

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

It will have to be brief. I'm sorry.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Well then I'll just take your answer. If we can't have a substantive one, we'll take a brief one.

Do I have time for a response, sir?

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Yes, I'll take a brief answer.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[Robert Fonberg]

Well, the short answer is that we're always cognizant of trying to balance what's essentially a contingent workforce against a full-time workforce. There was a question about how much of a backlog we actually had, and how many people it would actually take and over what period of time. It's not clear to me that it would have been appropriate to hire a contingent workforce, going back to 2007, over a 10-year period to clear out a backlog.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

There is a “why not?” hanging there that needs to be asked.

Go ahead, please. I want to hear a further answer. Why not?

[Kevin Lindsey]

Very quickly, Mr. Chair, there is a very high attrition rate among this staff. They're at relatively low classifications, and the work, as you can imagine, is highly labour intensive. People tend to move on quickly, so there is a very high attrition rate.

We are fully confident that, as the need for these staff abates as the backlog is dealt with, natural attrition will bring the numbers back to a proper equilibrium. Our experience is that there is about a 30% annual attrition rate with the staff working on this project, which frankly has been part of the issue. It has intensified greatly the need to train new staff as we're processing this backlog, so that is the answer.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Very good. Thank you. That was a good question.

Madame Blanchette-Lamothe, you have the floor.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would briefly like to continue the discussion my colleague started regarding staffing.

VAdm Donaldson said that he was looking to find a balance between the number of people and the administrative costs. RAdm Smith said that if there was more staff, for example 50 more people, applications could be processed more efficiently.

I would like to know whether you have achieved that ideal balance. Do you plan on hiring more staff? Where do things stand?