Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 17th, 2011

[James Ralston]

Sure.

There have been a couple of mentions already of the Federal Accountability Act and the designation of deputy heads as accounting officers. One of the things that accounting officers are responsible for is control, and another one is compliance with government policies. There are other things as well.

An easy way to understand internal audit, I would say, is that it's a source of information targeted towards the deputy heads to give him or her assurance about whether the control systems or compliance policies that he or she is ultimately accountable for are in fact in place and working. It gives them an early warning, if there are any signs of trouble, to remediate things.

So it's a management tool. It's focus is on improving control and compliance, and it is in support of the deputy head's role as an accounting officer.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Thank you very much.

Perhaps now I could give my time to Mr. Saxton.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Sure.

You've got two minutes on the clock.

Mr. Saxton.

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to go back briefly to the committee business that we discussed at the beginning of the meeting.

We agreed for Wednesday's meeting that we would deal with programs for first nations on reserve, which is perfectly fine. I just wanted to discuss the witnesses who will be coming on Wednesday, because I would like to propose that the Auditor General have the full time on Wednesday. This is an important issue. The retiring Auditor General did make it the subject of a significant statement as she left office and we should give the Auditor General the full time on Wednesday to discuss that report.

That's what I would like to put before the committee at this time.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

My difficulty is this: the committee had already mandated doing the original list before we broke. I checked with everybody to make sure that was okay. I haven't even talked to the clerk about who they are. So, obviously, it's just the “usual”.

At the beginning of the meeting, we affirmed exactly that. Now, at the last minute, you're asking to completely uninvite the people who've already been invited, and to go with the Auditor General for the whole time, which is completely different from what this committee agreed to.

At this point, I would say you're out of order.

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

What I'd like to propose is not that we uninvite them, but that we just delay the other witnesses until after the Auditor General has had the opportunity to address the report in its entirety.

I believe that will take all of Wednesday, and so I'd like to put a motion before the committee that we—

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

I've got to tell you, if there were new circumstances, I would understand why we would need to make a change. But at the last second, I'm not hearing any good reason why we should do this. We already have the meeting set. People have been invited to come. If, at the meeting, somebody wants to have a second meeting or some more time with the AG to have that opportunity.... I just don't understand the....

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Chair, you know as well as I do that this is not the last second or the last minute. We have, indeed, two full days ahead of us to arrange ourselves accordingly. We've done so with much less time in the past.

So I would like to put a motion before the committee that on Wednesday we hear from the Auditor General—

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

You know....

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

—and that we invite the rest for the Monday meeting.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

There is a steering committee tomorrow, and you can raise it at that time if there's good reason. But given that we've already dealt with this twice, once informally and formally, I'm going to rule it out of order. We've made the decision for Wednesday. If you want to talk about further plans, I'll put it on the agenda for the—

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to put a motion—

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

I'm not done yet. I'm not done—

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

—I'd like to put a motion before the committee.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

When I'm done, you may speak.

Tomorrow, at the steering committee, you may raise this at that time, but I don't see an urgency justifying the motion at this time.

So it's out of order. I'm going to move to—

[Andrew Saxton, Conservative, North Vancouver, BC]

A motion should...less time. You're saying it's the last minute now. Tomorrow's going to be the last second, then, so that doesn't make any sense at all. We should do it now, if we're going to do it at all.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

You're entitled to your opinion, but it's my ruling that counts, and I said no. So you can bring it tomorrow to the steering committee. We had time but it's now gone.

I'm sorry, Mr. Caron, but we have lost your remaining time.

The time for committee business has expired. Therefore, this meeting stands adjourned.