Evidence of meeting #80 for Public Accounts in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was finance.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
I would hope the sand would stop falling in the hourglass when others take my time away from me.
To resolve this issue, I think what I would recommend the committee do is that we just write a letter to follow up with the Finance department afterwards with a list of documents that we would like to have presented to us at a later date.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
Just to address Mr. Kramp earlier, I tried to be very careful—the Hansard will reflect—that the language I used was my advice to this committee. I can do nothing unilaterally. You folks would stop me pretty fast. It was more a matter of offering up that leadership from here, and you would decide whether you wanted to do it or not.
Mr. Saxton is now sort of offering up an easy way to do this, which is always preferred if it achieves the same goal, and that is that we would send a letter requesting the two pieces of information from the department, and then deal with any response at the time we get it.
The one thing it doesn't do, to be fair, is what Mr. Byrne mentioned in his motion, because this pretty much would negate Mr. Byrne's motion immediately. He does make the point about holding off any review of our report writing until we receive those documents.
Members of the committee will recall the knot we got into on issues of asking for information, and then starting a draft report before the information was received. We had quite an issue there which we worked our way through.
I only raise it, Mr. Saxton, because in fairness, Mr. Byrne did include that in his motion. Would you be willing to just tag that on as part of your motion, that we would send this letter and it's understood that we won't attempt any draft report writing until that information is received?
5:20 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
That's great.
Mr. Byrne, I'm hoping that solves most of your issues, but I will give you the floor.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
It does not, unfortunately, because there is another important element of the motion that creates a time requirement on the department to reply, which is that the documents be deposited with the clerk within seven calendar days of the adoption of this motion.
As I was trying to make clear earlier, however, it did not meet your approval, I am being very specific about the types of documents I am looking for. They are specifically the documents referenced in paragraph 7.50 of the auditor general's report.
So while there is an inclination by some to go with the general, I am inclined to go with the specific. The specific are those documents that the department has prepared for their long-term fiscal sustainability analysis since 2010, but they have not been made public. Since the existence of those documents has been made known, I'm looking for those documents.
Mr. Chair, the second part is you suggested that there could be a letter that would assist us in resolving another matter.
There seems to be on the part of the witnesses from the Department of Finance a confusion between the first recommendation of the Auditor General's report and the second recommendation of the Auditor General's report.
The first recommendation references that starting with budget 2013, the Department of Finance Canada will expand its internal analysis to provide the Minister of Finance with an assessment of the overall long-term fiscal implications of the new budget measures before the budget is finalized.
When I asked this—and I was the one who asked it—the witnesses came back with the response that it's more pertinent to the second recommendation that was found on paragraph 5.57, which refers to October 23, 2012. The department published a general report about the demographic transition that's currently under way in Canada and the fiscal implications it may have.
That's not what my questioning was at all. My question was—and I was the one who raised it—if the Minister of Finance is to get advice prior to budget 2013, and that advice is critical for the budgetary process, and the Auditor General has noted that type of information is also critical for parliamentarians in the matter of appropriation through the business of supply, I asked if that exact information that's supplied to the Minister of Finance prior to the budget being tabled will also be provided to parliamentarians prior to the recording of any vote on said appropriation.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
I don't think Mr. Saxton meant it as just the general. When he said “whatever the committee wants” he was saying whatever those specifics are.
That's why I came back and said earlier there are two specific pieces of information.
The letter is the result. It really short-circuits your motion. It gets to the same thing. So what I was hearing was an acquiescence on the part of the government to request the information you and Mr. Allen were seeking.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL
If the acquiescence is genuine, Mr. Chair, let's vote on the motion and get it done and over with.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Look, we've tried to come up with a solution. Mr. Byrne originally wanted another round of questioning, which he has now not done, and so we haven't got to a point where we're going to resolve this today. The clock is almost running out.
I propose we resolve this at the next committee meeting on Thursday, which is already scheduled. Therefore, at this point, I move we adjourn today's meeting immediately.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
I'll take the point of order, but it has to be really big because otherwise that motion takes precedence.
I'm listening.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL
The committee passed a motion in which we would continue on with the round of questioning, five minutes for the Conservative Party, five minutes for the New Democratic Party, and five minutes for the Liberal Party of Canada.
Since we have not completed the requirements of that motion, I assume that when we reconvene at our next meeting the witnesses will be made available to us for the continuation of questioning. We have not completed the motion that has been passed by the committee.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
That only pertained to this meeting. I didn't get a sense it was going on.
Your point is well taken. However, you're about to see what's going to happen anyway, because that means Mr. Saxton gets the floor for his five minutes, and guess what the first things out of his mouth are going be?
Mr. Saxton.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
You have already heard them, Mr. Chair, so as I mentioned in my previous statement two minutes ago, I move we deal with this at the next meeting, which is already scheduled, and we now immediately move to adjourn.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
A recorded vote is requested. That is always in order.
Therefore, I'll direct the clerk to do a roll call vote.
(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)
The committee has agreed to adjourn.
Before dropping the gavel I want to thank our guests very much. It's been an informative, interesting afternoon. We look forward to seeing you all back again on this file or many others.
Thank you all, again.
Committee members, we now stand adjourned.