You're allowed to call me Lisa, Mr. Chair. That's okay.
Picking up from what Mr. Christopherson and the chair said, if this were an isolated incident in which only the Auditor General was pointing to the culture issue, then I could accept the fact that it has no evidence, but we do have another individual, the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner, Mr. Joe Friday, who testified a year and a bit ago to the government operations committee. He said that “there cannot be an effective whistleblowing system without a culture shift—where speaking out about potential wrongdoing is an accepted part of public sector culture and where this can be supported and responded to in a climate free from fear of reprisal.”
I mean, he raised the alarm last year, Mr. Wernick, that Canadian bureaucrats will never routinely speak up about wrongdoing in the federal government until a deeply rooted culture of anxiety over whistle-blowing is eliminated. That's the beginning point. I don't know whether or not the Auditor General is actually out too far on a limb when he brings that up in the context of decision-making around Phoenix.
That said, I know that you've put mental health in your mandate letters for your deputies, and I think that's commendable. I think it's very good that people have to look after their workers within their own departments. I'm wondering whether or not there's room for you, going forward, to somehow deal with an issue that is apparent to other people who monitor the public sector but maybe is not as accepted at the higher levels that you work in.