I used it more as illustrative of how the decision-making happened, in a concrete kind of way, because my concern is not only about what happens within the public service. The mantra of the federal public service is to fearlessly advise and to faithfully implement, and I want to make sure that there is fearless advice given to the decision-makers in that cabinet room.
That's why I was asking Mr. Wernick those kinds of questions around what kinds of processes were in place. For me it's important to know that 14 deputy ministers, potentially 14 ministers, should have known that there was a problem, because taking a stance against Treasury Board is a pretty bold thing to do in a government, having been on the wrong side of Treasury Board on a few issues.
I'm just curious to know, when you get to that stalemate, what you do and how we prevent that stalemate from happening again. What are the assurances that when we go on this brand new program, which is going to be even more complex, we get it right?