First of all, let me take a little bit of issue with the way you framed the question. I don't want to get drawn into a partisan debate about “You broke the public service”—“No, you broke the public service.” My message to you is the public service is not broken. It's healthy, and it is learning and it is getting better. We learn the lessons and we move forward. I warned the Auditor General that his report could be weaponized and turned into partisan politics, and I think I've been proven right on that.
The issue that nobody really wants you to talk about is the underlying human resource system. We have 79 classification ladders. We have 650 distinct classification groups. We have thousands of special payrolls and allowances. It would be very challenging to build a pay system that can cope with all of that at a level of excellence. I think I would not be lured into spending a lot more time and energy on the forensics of what happened unless it's going to inform a way forward.
My advice to you is that we have to do some structural reform on the public service. There are too many layers. I joined the public service 37 years ago and I have climbed 15 layers to get to the job I have now. I'm very proud of that, but I'm dismayed there were 15 layers. There should have been fewer. I don't think we need five layers of executives. I don't think we need all the layers and complexity in the underlying HR system. If we're going to be nimble and fast and move people from place to place, from task to task, from work to work, we're going to have to have a 21st-century human resource system underneath it, but that's something the unions have a veto on because most of it is collective bargaining territory. It's going to be a big challenge to change that.