Evidence of meeting #122 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aircraft.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Could we do something to help encourage students to want to become pilots?
At $80,000, that's a significant barrier, and that's just for one year.
LGen A. D. Meinzinger
We have lots of programs where we can have people join our team and track towards getting their wings.
I think of the Seneca College program out of Toronto, where we take Canadians in. In a matter of four years, they're able to get their aviation degree and also do their pilot training. They graduate with a degree, with their wings, after four years, and they're headed to a squadron.
This is a program we're very keen on. In fact, we're finding the success rates of that cohort versus the direct-entry cohort are a little bit better. They're having greater success in attaining their wings. We're looking at perhaps increasing that, subtly.
We're also looking at perhaps a francophone college, where we could set up a similar type of approach.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
In terms of the targeting cell, what is that about? It says here that it will be “created to assist with attracting qualified applicants for pilots, and for targeting recruiting efforts”. It was to be started this month.
Can you tell me a bit about it and what's happening with that?
LGen A. D. Meinzinger
Yes, ma'am.
Essentially, this will be a bespoke team within the military personnel command. It will be very much focused on targeting not only pilots, which of course is a priority for me, but all of the stressed occupations that we have.
In the context of the map that you're reading, it is specific to pilots. It may mean how we engage in communities. It may mean engaging in some of the institutions that you've cited, where we can purposely make ourselves known and encourage individuals to join our team.
Additionally, the way military personnel command is configured, it's very important that they have the ability to fast-track people into the institutions. In areas where we are stressed and lacking a capacity, a focused effort, the targeting mechanism you described, is going to be of net benefit to us.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Will there be more CF-18 pilots being recruited? If not, why?
LGen A. D. Meinzinger
We will continue to recruit broadly.
Generally speaking, it's not difficult to attract individuals who want to become a pilot in the Canadian Armed Forces. Really, the selection to become a fighter pilot happens once they're in the training enterprise. We select, in training, those who are going to stream off to 419 and 410 squadrons, based on the skills and the competencies that they display during their flight training. They're not actually recruited specifically to become fighter pilots. They're recruited to become pilots, and then through the context of their training, we determine.... Certainly there is a matching of preference, but at the end of the day, an outcome is derived from that. That is how our process works.
As far as anything we can do to improve the success rates in that enterprise, I would point to the air crew selection tool that we use now in Trenton, Ontario, which is essentially the filter. Young Canadians who come in are run through a battery of tests, and then we determine whether they have the right skill sets and aptitudes to move into the pilot training system.
We've found, after introducing this new model—we collaborated with the RAF—that the success rates and the outcomes are higher than the traditional approach we use. We're quite excited about that. At the end of the day, that is going to mean more outcomes at the end of the production and that more individuals can go into the fighter force.
December 3rd, 2018 / 4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, General.
We'll now move to Mr. Kelly, please.
Mr. Kelly, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Thank you.
Deputy Minister, in your opening remarks, you addressed a number of things.
We have the report, which quite clearly gives us a sense of the extent to which the lack of pilots and the lack of maintainers are responsible for the shortcomings in operational capability.
Several times in your statements, you spoke about the advanced fighter replacements arriving in 2025. That is approaching very quickly, and we don't really have any clear indication of how and when. If there is to be an open competition for the replacement aircraft, when will that commence and how much confidence do we have that we will receive the first advanced fighter in 2025?
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Thank you very much for the question, and I'm happy to answer that. Certainly Mr. Finn, as our chief of procurement, knows it in profound detail.
We are on track with all the statements we have made about the future fighter capability project. On October 26, we released the draft request for proposals to industry. Five companies received the RFP for continuing with the competition. We are very confident that we are going to make the timeline. We will be issuing the final RFP in the spring.
Part of the reason we do a year of consultation with all the companies that are interested and have jets and planes that would be capable of competing is to ensure that we have a successful procurement at the end of the process. We are well under way with the future fighter capability project.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
I think I can assure you that there will be tremendous scrutiny around this procurement, given the disasters of procurement that have spanned governments. Again, this is not to particularly single out the current government. Procurement is a tremendous problem that has spanned governments for many years in Canada, and on this particular one, there will be a lot of attention given to it.
Mr. Berthelette, did you contemplate in your audit the risks around failure to begin receiving advanced jets in 2025?
We are on extension after extension to the life of the current fleet. Everything in this plan and this response appears to hinge on ensuring that between 2025 and 2032, we have fully replaced the fleet. I am concerned, given the history around problems with procurement, about what is going to happen in that time window if we don't achieve the procurement and delivery of advanced fighters.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
That was a question that we didn't look at during the course of this particular audit.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
I really hope that we're not here around this table listening to a future Auditor General's report on the procurement of the advanced fighter.
Perhaps then, back to you, Deputy Minister Thomas, have you contemplated the risks of failing to deliver between 2025 and full delivery by 2032?
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Thank you very much for the question.
The risks are that we will not be able to meet our commitments and defend our sovereignty through the Royal Canadian Air Force. Therefore, every effort is being made to ensure that we meet the dates. The consultation with industry thus far on this process has been going very well. The statement of requirements in the RFP is out there with industry now. We'll get feedback from them over the next couple of months to see where they have questions about the RFP, and then we will go forward in the spring.
That process will be tightly managed by Mr. Finn and his team to ensure that we meet the dates.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
What do you mean when you say, “we will go forward” in 2019? If industry is in receipt of the RFP, could you...?
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
—but they have the draft right now, and that's become our practice.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Okay, so this is in draft form, so what you're saying, when you say it's in the spring—
Conservative
Assistant Deputy Minister, Materiel, Department of National Defence
Yes, sir. Thank you for the question, sir.
Since pre-qualifying the five—again, one has declined to proceed—for the four we have, we have been working with them in a number of areas where we want to get their feedback and have been going back and forth with various documents. We've brought that together. They have actually until before Christmas to give us their detailed feedback on any comments they have on it. We will then be looking through the winter to update it. We will put it out to them one more time, if they have any final comments, and then the competitive RFP will be issued in spring 2019.
In 2020 the bids come in. We will complete the evaluation and we will down-select to what we call a competitive dialogue process. We've very cognizant of the risks, as you indicate them, sir, and that is why we've built in some time to go through the competitive dialogue, to actually land a contract award in 2022 at the latest. We've built in some time there because of the risks you indicate, and pretty much all of the suppliers have told us that from the contract award to the first aircraft delivery it's three years. That is their pretty consistent process, and it's what we've seen also in other projects, and that's what we're looking at. There could be some that could deliver some aircraft before that, but that is very consistent with the feedback we've received, sir.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Finn.
We now go to Mr. Arya, please, for five minutes.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll just quickly read the Auditor General's recommendations. It says, “National Defence should develop and implement recruitment and retention strategies”. The second one says, “National Defence should analyze what upgrades are required for the CF-18 to be operationally relevant until 2032”.
At first glance, anybody reading it will think that National Defence has not done anything so far, but only somewhere in the middle of the report it actually says that “National Defence has plans to address some risks...these investment decisions will not be enough”. I think the key word there is “enough”.
When it comes to recommendations, at least in my opinion, it should have been “National Defence should develop regional strategies”. Don't you think so?
Conservative