Sure. I'd be happy to.
I'm not going to try to put words in the Auditor General's mouth, but I think it is worth underlining a couple of things. One, we have work to do on performance indicators. The report has also indicated that the vast majority of initiatives that are part of the beyond the border action plan are completed or near completion. Some have been delayed. So I think the question really is less about whether money has been wasted, but more in terms of showing the impact in terms of projects not being completed and that kind of thing. I think that's where we have work to do.
As recently as the last little while, we were having a conversation even about examples that have been used in the report, about shifting from projects completed—which was done, as my colleague John has described, at the request of industry—to demonstrating how it's having an impact on the paper burden on shippers. In the context of threat assessment, let's demonstrate the impact that this project might have had on the effectiveness of targeting. I think we have to think very differently from how we have in the past as public servants about demonstrating the impact, particularly for initiatives that cut across departments. For those that are within a single department or more confined, I think it's less of a challenge. However, I think you will see significant effort over the next 12 months by departments to do a better job with advice, building on the work of the Auditor General to fill that gap of explaining not just whether a project was done, at the request of the government of the day, but also its impact. That's the challenge.
We count inputs really well; we count outputs better. We don't count and describe outcomes very well. An outcome that might be important to public servants might not be the same outcome that's important to parliamentarians. So I think, frankly, there's going to be a bit of a dialogue.
I think we have opened up a new front of dialogue with the public accounts committee with what you will see over the next 12 months, because I'm sure you will have feedback and say, no, we'd like you to improve in this area or another. So I think it's a work in progress.
The other point I would just underline again is that this was not about $80 million, for example, being wasted. The projects were done as designed, and now it's about on-boarding. There may be gaps there to get the absolute top value for money, but that's where we need to do the work.