Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 19th, 2017

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

The question and the conflict in the position you're in right now is who are you actually working for? Are you working for the Government of Canada, or for the citizens of Canada, or for the fishermen in the area?

I would say that with the competition coming down the road, you have a decision to make. One of the decisions you need to make is to decide who you work for. If you work for the Government of Canada, it's easy to say that the corporation should continue as long as it's profitable. If you're working for the interests of the citizens or the interests of the fishermen, I think you need to look at yourself in the mirror as an organization and make a recommendation to the government that includes an option for closing the crown corporation. That would deal with all of the audit items that have been outlined.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have two minutes left.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

To me, this is pretty cut and dried, so I'll pass it back to Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

What's the current debt of the FFMC?

[David Bevan]

It's in two phases. We have operating debt. It's something that we incur every year, allowing us to pay fishermen without having to—

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

What's your long-term debt, though?

[David Bevan]

The long-term debt is $12.5 million, and our retained earnings are almost $15 million.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

If there were any debt and the corporation were wound down, the Government of Canada would guarantee it, right?

[David Bevan]

That's correct.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

That's what I thought.

Regarding final payments to the fishermen, some have said that the final payments were actually too high, so there wasn't enough capital reinvested in the plant. I've toured the Transcona plant, and I've seen the deficiencies there. Does that plant need major refurbishing, and has that refurbishing not been done because final payments were too high for the last number of years?

[David Bevan]

In 2010, the policy around final payments and retained earnings changed. As you can see, retained earnings have gone up in that period of time. Since that policy change, there's been significant investment in the plant. I don't know when you were last there, but we've upgraded the freezers, etc.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Do the contracts that you're writing with the fishermen say that they have to sell all of their catch of all species to you, so that you're precluding them from accessing the private market as a result? Is that correct?

[David Bevan]

That is correct in one sense. If you are selling a mix of species, it's one thing to say, “I'll high-grade my pickerel, but then I won't have a market for anything else.”

You have to make a decision whether it's better to sell it all to the corporation or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.

We're going to go to Mr. Arya, and then we'll come right back here, so you'll be able to finish that perhaps.

Mr. Arya, please, you have five minutes.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Bevan, I have to say that I partially agree with my colleague on the other side, Mr. Nuttall. Maybe it was relevant to set up a corporation like this in 1969, but in these times, I don't know why the federal government has to be involved in this business.

You mentioned that it was beyond your scope to decide this, but a question for the government to decide. However, before becoming the chair of the corporation's board, you were the associate deputy minister at the Department of Fisheries, so you were aware of this organization's issues. Is that correct?

[David Bevan]

That's correct.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

What did you do before you became the chair of this board?

[David Bevan]

I was retired before I became the chair of this board.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

So, during your time at the Department of Fisheries....

[David Bevan]

I retired in 2014 and I took on this responsibility in 2016.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Yes, and in 2010 the Auditor General identified issues. Between 2010 and before you retired in 2014, what actions did you take?

[David Bevan]

The board members changed. We moved away from a representative board where each jurisdiction had a representative on the board and we moved to skills-based for the federal appointees. That did take place. We changed the policy regarding—

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

During the time that you did your change you had a new president who created the positions without any official descriptions and appointed people, and that all took place, I guess, by the person who was there during that time.

[David Bevan]

That's correct. That was done, and that was raised by members of the board with the Government of Canada. The Government of Canada did take action in 2016 to remove that person and to place new board members in the corporation and to have an interim president.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Who is the person, other than the president, who is responsible for purchasing capital equipment which was never used?