Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 9th, 2017

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Okay. Maybe just to get a bit more granular, we know that compliance officers are able to collect a certain amount of tariffs. There's a calculation here that it is approximately four to 11 times their individual salaries. What is your thinking around that? Is it adding more compliance officers? Is that necessarily multiplied? Is there an exponential effect there on the amount of tariffs that can be collected?

[John Ossowski]

I could speculate, but I think, in general, when you throw an auditor at a case, they always find something. They take great pride in that.

I think, depending on the particular mode and the particular good, there could be a very high return on investment, but I would expect a return on investment that makes it worthwhile for the Department of Finance to consider funding us for more. That's a choice that has to be made amongst all the other pressures that they have across the system.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

What's interesting, if I may, Chair, just on the cultural side, when folks know that there's more checking and verification going on, it tends to promote better behaviour. Would you agree? If that's not being seen, then the incentive there is to try your luck, as we've heard here today.

[John Ossowski]

I would say no one likes to hear that they're being audited.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Or simply verified at the border.

[John Ossowski]

As good as it might be for you, it's like a trip a dentist.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

We'll let the auditor off, but being verified at the border, just knowing that you're going to be that one out of three who will be verified, then the other two are on their best behaviour.

[John Ossowski]

Absolutely. People pay attention.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Again, it's this balance because if it was random, if every third person going through the border is going to be an extensive check, it's really great until you're that third person, and all of a sudden you're slowed down at the border. It's the same with trade. It's here we have the balance.

Mr. Nuttall, please, and you're probably going to have the final word. You only have a few minutes.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I have just one question of verification, then I'll share my time with Mr. Christopherson.

To Finance Canada, what is the interest rate related to individuals not filing their taxes on time and paying the resulting penalties after a year?

[Rick Stewart]

I don't have that information with me. We'll follow up with you and get that information.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

The CRA. Okay.

[Rick Stewart]

It's a CRA question, yes.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I believe it's 1% per month, yet we possibly have situations where there are foreign businesses paying 1% per year. That's an issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. Thank you, Mr. Nuttall.

Mr. Christopherson, you're going to have the final minute.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm just going to make a quick statement, if I may, Chair.

In light of this issue, in light of colleagues like Mr. Massé and others who represent Canadians who are being let down by this system not working right, I would just say that this may be—and I'm only offering my opinion now—one of those times when we plan 18 or 24 months from now that we want the department back in here to address these issues, rather than waiting until the full audit is done. This is just so important and so complex, and a lot of promises have been made, that we may, indeed, want to haul them all back here and see how we're doing 18 months from now. I'll just leave that there for us to consider.

Thanks, Chair. Thanks to our guests for being here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

We also have action plans that have been submitted by the departments, and we do follow those up. I think what Mr. Christopherson says is correct. There can be callbacks. Even along the lines of the action plan, if we feel that some of those smaller targets aren't being met, it may be sooner rather than 24 months later.

We want to thank you for being here today. It's been a very interesting discussion. We thank you for your attendance. I usually put a in little qualifier that if in the next few days you feel you could provide us with more information on a certain question—there were some where we requested that, and even you may think you didn't answer with the full degree that you could have—please feel free to submit the information to our committee, and we will see that it gets into the report if it is deemed information that we would use.

Thank you for your attendance.

The meeting is adjourned.