Yes.
Evidence of meeting #1 for Public Accounts in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clerk.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #1 for Public Accounts in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clerk.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:55 a.m.
The Clerk
In the French version, the words “si possible” would be removed from “d'une vérification remettent si possible un plan d'action au Comité,” and the words “48 heures avant la tenue” would be added.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK
I'd say “at least 48 hours”, because we don't want the departments to think that they only have to give 48 hours. They can do it earlier than that, but no later than 48 hours.
11:55 a.m.
Committee Researcher
This would speak further to Mr. Steinley's point. The standard of practice for the Library of Parliament is to provide briefing notes 48 hours in advance as well. This, then, would dovetail nicely with when you would get your information package, if you wanted this change.
11:55 a.m.
The Clerk
Do you want “at least” or “no later than”?
11:55 a.m.
The Clerk
The motion will be that we strike from the main motion the words “when feasible” and that we add after “an action plan to the committee” the words “no later than 48 hours”.
In the French version, the words “si possible” are removed from “d'une vérification remettent si possible.” The words “pas plus tard que 48 heures avant la tenue” are added after “un plan d'action au Comité.”
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
With this amendment, what happens if the 48-hour period is past and we are into the 47th hour?
Noon
The Clerk
Technically, you can be mad; you can crucify them if you want. There is, however, no—
Noon
The Clerk
—no penalty per se, but it is a pressure.
It is a little like the whole system of action plans. You need to know that ever since they started requiring action plans in 2009, that requirement has not been provided in the Standing Orders of the House. It was a brand new mechanism.
This is the only committee that did it. It was so good that in the last Parliament, two other committees wanted to do the same—specifically the environment committee did—for their report.
The idea might spread; the action plans may become something more regular, especially because since 2009 the government has accepted this requirement, even though they were not bound. It is a kind of tradition to do it.
Noon
Committee Researcher
I want to add something.
I think that it's possible to hold productive meetings and discussions with witnesses on the key aspects of an issue even if we haven't received their action plans. That's only one part of the picture.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
We're going to vote on the amendment now.
(Amendment agreed to)
(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Thank you very much.
Is there anything else for routine motions?
Yes, Mr. Green.
Noon
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I understand from my predecessor that from time to time there are visiting delegations. The last recommendation here is put forward:
That the Clerk of the Committee be authorized to purchase an appropriate gift to be presented to visiting delegations, and that the Chair report it to the Committee.
(Motion agreed to)
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much for the routine motions.
We're not going to do a whole lot of business today. What we want to do, though, is provide a calendar of what we could possibly do at our next meeting, on Thursday.
There are a number of things I think would be helpful to the committee, as I'm told by the analysts and the clerk, which would include some briefings from the Auditor General. There are a couple of different organizations involved. We have some past chairs who would like to come in, including Mr. Christopherson, Mr. Sorenson and Mr. Murphy.
Would it be okay to schedule those? You'll get a calendar that we'll talk about on Thursday. We'll make sure everyone agrees.
I would like permission to invite the Auditor General in on Thursday to give us a briefing for an hour and a half. Then we'll set aside another half hour of committee business on what can we look after over the next couple of weeks. I'm thinking mostly until the end of March, because we have some break weeks and our schedule is rather goofy.
If that's okay, we'll move forward. When the calendar is done, I'll have the staff distribute it to all the members. You can bring the calendar with you and you'll have a chance to see what we're trying to move forward on in terms of getting people up to speed with some background and some briefings.
Mr. Fergus.
Noon
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
I think that's a wonderful idea, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much for it.
I just want to know whether we'll come back to the issue regarding the third vice-chair when we discuss committee business.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Yes. Absolutely.
We can discuss this on Thursday, but we're trying to get a few people in here to give us the lay of the land in public accounts. Then we will continue to upgrade this agenda as we move forward.
We will, then, work on getting the Auditor General in on Thursday for our meeting, probably for an hour and a half. Then we'll also have half an hour to discuss the future business agenda. There are a number of things we need to do.
I just want to mention that there is an annual auditor generals conference every year around the country. Typically, that's about the only travel this committee does, and it's very beneficial. There are provincial members as well. It is from August 16 to 18.
I want to have a motion right now to look at going to the liaison committee to get funds for our committee to travel to it. Once again, it's a great experience—it's a learning experience—and I know that previous committees have done this. This year it's from August 16 to 18 in Victoria, B.C.
I'm going to ask the analysts and the clerk to come up with a budget for us that we can send over to liaison committee. Is that okay?
12:05 p.m.
Committee Researcher
Mr. Chair and members, we have distributed a document.
Twice a year, the analysts prepare an analysis of all the responses received from the departments that have met with us. In the previous Parliament, we made 346 recommendations in 70 reports.
The vast majority of responses to the committee's recommendations are answered adequately, but that's not always the case. Twice a year, we prepare a document for the committee's review that highlights problematic responses—responses that have not been adequate, in our opinion—to the committee's recommendations. A document has been circulated. It's quite a bit; it's 13 pages.
To give the departments the benefit of the doubt, though, I believe that in some cases there may have been confusion with regard to when Parliament dissolves and the committees don't exist. Some of those departments may not have known to whom to send their responses and were waiting for Parliament to reconvene. I'd like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt if I can on that, but there are quite a few.
Then, if it pleases the Chair, I suggest that members review this document, and we will have a meeting on March 10 in which we will discuss as a committee—typically in camera—how to proceed. Each panel shows the report in question, which can be clicked on and accessed in terms of the recommendation that was not addressed properly, the issue surrounding that recommendation and a suggested action.
Again, to clarify, these are the committee's recommendations, not the Auditor General's recommendations. There are a number now, unfortunately, but typically when we do our six-month review there are only about three or four.
One example is that the committee might write a letter to inquire about how a department is working to improve a completion rate for one of its planned implementations to address a recommendation.
There are about 13 pages, which is quite a few, and if the committee has a chance to review them, on March 10 we will discuss them and the committee will authorize the analysts to support the Chair in preparing correspondence to the departments, or in some cases inviting them back, which is the harsher of the options. As Mr. Kelly said, sometimes we have to let them know that the committee means business. It is important to convey that recommendations must be addressed adequately as part of good governance.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Sorry, but I hope I won't end up causing your promise about a shorter meeting to.... I understood your reluctance to make it. If we have a 90-minute briefing from the Auditor General on Thursday and just 30 minutes for a work plan, that sounds like a lot of time, but it isn't, really.
If you don't mind I'll get into something now that I thought perhaps could go then, and that's outstanding committee business that the election more or less upset. There has been, for example, no answer to the committee, no response from the Department of Finance, to the letter that was sent by this committee over the Auditor General's budget.