Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 15th, 2020

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fergus, for that clarification.

Mr. Green, Mr. Fergus has asked for clarification, I believe, to the two friendly amendments that were made and we've now had one of our members suggest that we separate out the second friendly amendment into a separate motion that he'd be willing to make.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

If I recall—and notwithstanding that there's no such thing as friendly amendments, as I'm sure the clerk would remind us—the collaborative spirit of this conversation has landed us in a place where in my motion we are inviting back the past chairs, inclusive of Mr. Allison, Mr. Christopherson, Mr. Sorenson, and Mr. Murphy, and that we are also going to invite back the Canadian Audit & Accountability Foundation, as we had done in an orientation in the previous meetings. Full stop, and then I'll leave the rest to my good friend, Mr. Berthold.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Are we ready for the question?

All those in favour?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I sent the motion to the clerk earlier this morning. She will be able to forward a copy to you.

This is a fairly simple motion, which reads as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Public Accounts invite the Auditor General of Canada to testify at its meeting on Thursday, October 22, 2020, to provide an update on the current audits and the expected deadlines for the publication of the next reports; that during this meeting, the first hour be in camera and that the second hour be public; and that the public portion be televised.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thanks. I had an email coming in, so I couldn't raise my hand on the right-hand part of my screen.

I think if we did the training first, then we would know how to deal with Auditor General questions. To get the process of how we function as a committee as a first order of business, I agree we need to get the Auditor General in, especially in her new role. I know the clock is ticking because in November we're going to have the public accounts coming at us. There is going to be a fairly heavy workload thrown at us in November, I'm guessing.

I would say, let's try to get our committee processes and procedures and reflections done first, and then get the Auditor General in once we've had our training on how to function as a committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Is there any other discussion?

Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I would like to add something, and despite my friend Mr. Green's statement, I hope that it will be considered as a friendly amendment.

I don't want to change anything in Mr. Berthold's motion, since I agree with him that the Auditor General and the Comptroller General should appear before the committee as soon as possible. I would like to add, however, that we should first have some training from the other guests before inviting these witnesses to come and present the statement of accounts and audits at the next meeting.

Mr. Berthold, I don't remember if you were a member of the committee before the prorogation. We received very detailed training on how to read the statement of accounts, the right questions to ask and the questions to avoid. I found it very useful. The committee analyst is waving; he may have an update on this.

I support your motion, Mr. Berthold. My proposal does not constitute a dilatory motion. I simply want us to receive training first, so that we can then ask questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you, Mr. Fergus.

I would turn it over to Mr. Theckedath.

[Dillan Theckedath, Committee Researcher]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, everybody.

I'm Dillan Theckedath. Mr. Leonard and I are the two analysts assigned to the committee.

I'd like to say something about the steps to follow when it comes to inviting the Auditor General and the people who work in the public accounts area. When you're doing a study on public accounts, normally the...

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

One moment.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

I think we're having troubles.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

We have both the French and the English at the same time talking over one another.

[Dillan Theckedath]

I'll speak in English for technical reasons right now.

When we have a meeting of the public accounts committee, it has been the practice in recent years to have it divided into two one-hour sessions. During first hour, in addition to staff from the OAG who provide an audit opinion of the public accounts, we also include the people at the Office of the Comptroller General who help prepare them.

We have one in camera session, and then we have one public session in which we study the public accounts, ask questions, etc.

One way, perhaps, in which to accommodate the volonté of the committee would be to have a session with the past chairs, the Canadian Audit & Accountability Foundation and, if possible, the Auditor General of Canada, Ms. Hogan.

Then when we study the public accounts in the next meeting, it can be assured that both the OAG, as well as the staff, including the comptroller general, will be there for the first half of the in camera session.

I just wanted to help provide some background for the committee.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Dillan.

I see Mr. Green.

Go ahead.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I know that in short order, as Mr. Longfield referenced, it's likely that we're going to get to a point where we'll be meeting twice a week, based on the workload.

As a thought for the committee, given that we haven't met for quite some time now, if it makes sense or if it is both considered urgent and important, perhaps in the week that we do our orientation we can book a second meeting to deal with the business at hand in the event that it might take us longer than we might have in one sitting to get it all done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Green.

I am going to go to Madam Clerk because I know they're working with the schedule for committees and the House's ability or capacity to hold a certain number of minutes.

Madam Clerk, would you speak to Mr. Green?

[The Clerk]

I was informed this morning that the committees will be meeting once a week for the next two weeks, and that the public accounts committee is scheduled to meet on Thursday morning from 11 to 1 both next week and the following week. We would only have one meeting a week for those two weeks.

If you want to have an orientation session the first week and then a session with the Auditor General's office the second week, that's something the committee could do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Mr. Berthold, go ahead.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I have no objection to an orientation session.

In my motion, instead of talking about Thursday, October 22, we could say October 22, which is next week, or October 29, which is the following week. That would give the clerk some latitude in organizing the meetings if, for example, some guests were not available on Thursday of next week. It would also give them some latitude.

If we can't hold the training session before the week of October 29, we could still have the Auditor General come in next week and ask her questions. However, I prefer that we have the orientation session next week.

If everyone agrees, I will amend my motion to say “at its meeting on Thursday, October 22, 2020, or Thursday, October 29, 2020”. So the clerk will be able to schedule the orientation session at either of those two meetings, depending on people's availability.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Berthold.

Are there any other comments to be made? If not, I will assume that we are ready for the question.

All those in favour of Mr. Berthold's motion?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Thank you very much.

Is there any other future business that the committee wishes to discuss at this time? If not, I would need the consent of the committee to adjourn the meeting.

Do I have your consent to adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

That was a great job, Madam Chair.