Public Accounts Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I feel obligated to provide Commissioner Kelly with the opportunity to respond to my earlier question, so that it didn't come off as a hostile statement. I'll reframe it.

In section 1.25, the OAG stated that:

We also found that neither organization had a comprehensive strategy to address harassment, discrimination, and workplace violence. This meant that the organizations had not defined overall strategic objectives, nor had they prioritized how to achieve them. Both organizations reviewed complaint statistics and results from employee surveys, including the Public Service Employee Survey. However, neither organization had a performance measurement framework.

Why did it take media reports of harassment at the CSC in 2016 and 2017 to get you to add harassment, discrimination and violence in the workplace as a part of your corporate risk profile?

[Anne Kelly]

It's true that the Auditor General found that we didn't have a comprehensive strategy, but we did have many ongoing activities. We consolidated that into a comprehensive strategy. It's not that we weren't paying attention to harassment, discrimination or workplace violence, definitely not.

Our workplace wellness and employee well-being, as I said, is now based on operational, corporate and ethical risk. It has three pillars, it—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Respectfully, Commissioner, I have to interject.

Activities do not equal outcomes.

You've referenced many times in your presentation corporate language around organizational behaviour without drilling down on accountability measures. This is where I think there's a disconnect in the culture of what we're seeing, with the continued poor outcomes.

You're going to go on the record and say it had nothing to do with the attention that came in 2016 and 2017? That it just so happened to be the case that you addressed it after the fact?

[Anne Kelly]

No, it was always something we were concerned about.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

But you didn't have a plan for it.

[Anne Kelly]

I wouldn't say we didn't have a plan.

The Auditor General said it wasn't in a consolidated, comprehensive strategy. Based on the AG's recommendation, that's what we developed.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, that satisfies me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Green.

With that, we are done our questioning for our presenters today. I would like to thank you very much for joining us and having this conversation with us. I will now invite you to leave our meeting.

Thank you very much, colleagues. That was an excellent meeting with excellent questions.

We are on time, and I thank you for that.

Mr. Fergus, were you satisfied with the follow-up question by Mr. Green and the answer, or would you like a follow-up written response?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I would still appreciate a written response, thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

You're welcome. We will ask for that.

Colleagues, you were provided with a new proposed calendar for the meetings for January and February. As I indicated earlier, the deputy minister of Public Services and Procurement Canada has a conflict for the upcoming meeting on Tuesday. We've provided you with the adjusted calendar where he will appear at a later date. Do you have any questions concerning the proposed calendar that we circulated?

That's great.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I just have a quick note.

If we could, for the tech folks on the other side, Madam Chair, figure out what that reverb is.... It's very distracting. It throws you off your game. I'm hoping that at your end we can get that sorted out. I'm not quite sure what it is, but I'm hoping that we can get on it really quickly and make sure that it doesn't distract from the interventions in the future.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you, Matthew. I appreciate that intervention.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Excuse me, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Yes, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Would it be possible to confirm how long it usually takes to receive written responses?

We had a meeting on December 3. We received a number of written responses from the Department of Finance, but we're still awaiting others. I followed up with Madam Clerk on this matter.

What I'd like to know is what's the usual or allowable time period for a department to respond in writing to a question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

Angela.

[The Clerk]

There's no standard delay. Normally, the department will respond fairly quickly. In this case, perhaps they missed that particular question in the meeting, but I have followed up with them and hope to have that response in a fairly timely manner.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

The meeting is adjourned.