Let me first speak to the amendment that Mr. Fergus has moved, then perhaps I can address some of Mr. Lawrence's comments and go back to some of the concerns I have with Mr. Berthold's motion.
What I like about Mr. Fergus' amendment is that this committee works in lockstep with the Auditor General. We study the Auditor General's reports. We have her and her team come in and hold government to account. We have an integral relationship with that office, and that's important.
I didn't get the sense from the Auditor General that she was obstructed in any way in terms of her work in being able to provide a report. We have to also remember that the Department of Finance, as part of its recommendations or its agreement to the Auditor General's report, has agreed to do a complete and full analysis of this type of program. That's important.
When I look at Mr. Fergus' amendment, it's important we bring Ms. Hogan before this committee in order to ask her the questions about whether or not she was satisfied with the information she was able to receive. She works with government all the time as it relates to getting information that is cabinet sensitive and other information that is not.
As opposed to going on Mr. Berthold's motion, which is to create the net as wide and far as we can, get every document under the sun that relates to one of the largest programs in Canadian history, a $100 billion program, and take the time of our civil servants who are literally going to have to spend weeks on end finding this information as opposed to delivering for Canadians, let's instead ask the Auditor General to come and then ask her what information, if any, she felt she wasn't able to access that would be important for us as parliamentarians to use to scrutinize the government. That is something I can support.
It also gives us time in the interim to look at Mr. Berthold's motion and see if we can find a way to actually make it a bit more narrow, keeping in mind that the first job of government is to provide for its citizens. Again, we're in the middle of a pandemic. These individuals are going to have to literally spend time on time to get every document under the sun.
My question to Mr. Lawrence would be, what truth haven't you been able to find? Maybe we can get those specific questions on the record, because there have been occasions when we've asked for information and we were able to get it as a committee. We were able to be specific. You asked the question around the price on pollution; we were able to get that information. It was important. I stand with you on that.
On this idea that we're going to get all the documents, all the analysis around one of the largest programs in Canadian history, what's the paper trail on that? It's massive and unreasonable.
Frankly, with all due respect to Mr. Berthold, because perhaps it's not his intention, the text of the motion reads as simply an obstruction to government. I want him to understand the amount of work and pressure. Frankly, I don't want to say “wasted time”, because yes, we want to hold government to account and we want to get information, but when you cast your net as wide as the ocean, it is a lot of wasted time in terms of the stuff that has to go on. Let's narrow this in. What is the truth that you're not happy about? What is the truth, the information, that you need?
We've had the information in terms of what this has meant for Canadians, what this has meant for individual employees and businesses. What information don't you have that is so crucial? I would ask that not just to my Conservative colleagues but indeed all members.
I support this type of amendment. Let's bring Ms. Hogan in; let's ask her. We're not really in a good place to know what information was or wasn't available. Let's ask Ms. Hogan. Then we can get something a bit more narrow and table a motion unanimously in the spirit of how this committee is supposed to function to get the information that's needed.
Hopefully, you can sense my passion through this, because this is the kind of stuff.... Again, I'm very fortunate to sit on agriculture and on public accounts. I've had a very good experience in being able to work collaboratively. I understand that it's the job of Her Majesty’s official opposition to hold government to account. I understand, Mr. Lawrence, that you want to get the answers from government and have an obligation to your citizens to do so, but you have to be a bit more narrow about what exactly you feel government isn't providing.
Is it something from Mr. Sabia? Is it certain information? What do you want to actually have?
Let's make sure we have to work within the confines of what is cabinet privilege, which has been a historical tradition since Confederation.