Public Accounts Committee on May 4th, 2021

[Bob Hamilton]

Madam Chair, I'll take that question.

In fact, as you referenced, one of the reasons that we like to have the filing deadline as early as possible is to give us some time to review and assess the benefits that are due to be paid before the start of the new benefit year in July.

We now have the filings in, and we're in that process. We think that gives us the maximum chance to make sure that people get the benefits they're eligible for, rather than have them discontinued for a period of time while we go forward.

I think that last year—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Just to be clear on that point, through you, Madam Chair—I only have two and a half minutes—we used to do a voluntary tax clinic. Our office processed up to 5,000 tax applications a year. This year we're only going to do about 1,500. I'm going to presume that there are tens of thousands of Canadians, if not hundreds of thousands, who are not going to get their tax filings in on time.

Have you seen a decrease in applications compared to previous years, or are you suggesting that we're on par with like numbers this year to date?

[Bob Hamilton]

Madam Chair, I'll provide a general response to that, but maybe my colleague Mr. Vermaeten will have more precise numbers.

I would say that overall we see roughly the same number of tax filings as we would in a normal year at this time. I'll maybe look to Frank to confirm that, but.... We were behind for a little while.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Would the CERB create a disruption to this in any way for people?

[Bob Hamilton]

Would the CERB in what way...? Sorry; just for clarification—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I mean in terms of people's eligibility, or has the increase in the eligibility accounted for that?

[Bob Hamilton]

I'd have to defer to my colleague to answer that question, so maybe Frank...or we can get back to the committee on any impact that the CERB may have had on people's eligibility for the CCB.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm happy to get that in writing, as I know my time is up and the chair is about to gently nudge us along. Thank you.

[Bob Hamilton]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Green.

Thank you, Mr. Hamilton. We would be happy to receive that in writing.

We will now move to our next round of questioning. It's a five-minute round, starting with Mr. Tochor.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Generally I'm very supportive of the CCB. I think it's a great program that lets families choose how to spend those dollars on what's right for their families. However, there are concerns, and the report looks at some of the risks associated with the program. I can't think of a bigger risk that's going to be facing future governments than inflation.

You mentioned in the backgrounder that the benefit is tied to inflation. It wasn't mentioned in the report, but I am just wondering why, if you did look at it, it wasn't included. Do you have any comments about what effect an inflation rate of 3%—or 5%, in the worst case—would have on the cost of the program?

[Martin Dompierre]

I'm not sure if this is directed to me, Madam Chair. I'll ask my colleague, Philippe Le Goff. I don't believe we have had a review of that specifically.

We did mention at the beginning of the report, in the introduction and in the context, that the payments were indexed, so there is a clause there that is supporting that. We did not specifically—

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

What are the thresholds? Are the thresholds also tied to inflation?

[Martin Dompierre]

I believe so, but I'll turn to my colleague, Philippe Le Goff. He would be in a better position to provide some details, if he has any.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you.

[Philippe Le Goff, Principal, Office of the Auditor General]

Madam Chair, we did not look specifically at any question related to the viability of the program for the long term or to inflation. I will defer the question to the CRA.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Could someone get back to me on whether there's an answer on what that would look like?

I have limited time here, so I'm going to go on to the next concern that I have, which is on the retro pay. I would just like confirmation on how far back you could go on the retro pay to either top up the individual or, hopefully, if there was an overpayment, receive dollars back to the treasury.

[Bob Hamilton]

Perhaps, Madam Chair, I'll ask one of my colleagues to take on the question of how far back we can go.

[Frank Vermaeten]

Generally speaking, the rule is that you can go back 10 years with respect to making a retroactive payment.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

On the people we've overpaid who have left the country, is it fair to assume that our success rate of receiving any dollars back is very limited?

[Frank Vermaeten]

I don't have any statistics on that. Perhaps my colleague Mr. Lemieux would have that available at his fingertips. I doubt it, but we could ask him.

[Marc Lemieux, Assistant Commissioner, Collections and Verification Branch, Canada Revenue Agency]

Unfortunately, I don't have that at my fingertips. We could look into the data and see if we have any statistics on that.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Another area of my concern for families is that, unfortunately, with the divorce rates and the breakdown of families, couples are terrible to each other during that time period. If one member fails to file their income tax, am I correct from reading the report that the actual payment doesn't get processed?

[Martin Dompierre]

Madam Chair, I could take part of that question.

It is as you referred to in the report. We indicate that either one or both would need to file their tax return in order for these payments to be made.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

On that example, I guess it could go on for 10 years with the retro part. Hopefully they file before then and whoever has the custody of the child would get those dollars back, if I'm understanding the program correctly.