Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 29th, 2020

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

With that being said, given the scope of work that we've laid out.... I don't even know if this is a question, but certainly a consideration for all of the committee that this would be something we look for in a study to ensure that the foundation, perhaps, of this department is set up in a way that is impartial and independent as a mechanism.

I would—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Green. Your time is up.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

I am being told that translation is not working on Zoom. It is working well on the floor, but I am being told that the translation is not working for my colleagues.

Would you be able to check with the technical team, please?

[Karen Hogan]

I apologize. I think I made a mistake, as I did not select English. I apologize; I won't do it again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, we have five minutes left. We have two questions that we have to entertain prior to adjourning.

I would like to suggest that with the time left we split it between the two speakers on the five-minute round and give each of them one to two minutes to ask a question. Would you agree with that, Mr. Webber and Mr. Longfield? Thank you.

Mr. Webber, please go ahead.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Hogan, and best wishes in your role as Auditor General.

In your statement earlier, you said you are hiring currently in anticipation of additional funding. You're asking for $25 million, as you mentioned, but that does not include the benefits for your employees, and no accommodations are included in there either. Can you please give us an idea of what those costs would be for the benefits and the accommodations as well?

[Karen Hogan]

Absolutely. Our ask was for $25 million. When you include employee benefit programs and accommodations, it's $31.6 million. However, the $25 million is the only amount that gets added to our funding on an ongoing basis.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Okay. How many full-time equivalents would that include in addition to what you have right now? Back in 2018-19, you had 552 FTEs. That decreased by 16 in 2017-18, and you plan on using, I guess, 585 this current year. I guess I just answered my own question there.

Do you still plan on getting to about 585 FTEs? That additional funding obviously is there. Is that correct?

[Karen Hogan]

The 585 FTEs is without that additional funding. That is our normal workforce. We're usually somewhere between 575 and 600 people. The additional money we asked for would see us adding about 150 FTEs, or 150 individuals, to our workforce. Obviously that will be over time, and the split is between some auditors and support services to be able to continue to support our auditors.

That's not going to happen in one year. It's definitely going to take some time to get there. I would imagine it will be a few years.

In the meantime, if we do get all the funding, our intention is to use some contractors in order to be able to build up our capacity and deliver on some performance audit work. We will also use some of the funds in the first few years to invest in some of our IT projects.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you, Ms. Hogan.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Yes, go ahead.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I think we can just check the blues, but the Auditor General referenced some numbers at the beginning, $25 million and $31 million. Can the Auditor General quickly encapsulate those numbers again? There were an awful lot of numbers thrown out there at the beginning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Mr. Sorbara, we could perhaps move to the next questioner we have on the list.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Longfield, go ahead.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Hogan, it's great to see you again, and congratulations. I know there's been tragedy in the department, and I know on a personal level that people have carried on very professionally.

I have a very short amount of time, but I'm looking at the 2018-19 departmental results report. It shows there was a lapse of $3.5 million. I know funding has been an issue, but we were looking at carrying forward $3.5 million into 2019-20. Was that actual lapse the amount that went forward or was it a different amount? Why did we have it in the first place?

[Karen Hogan]

I believe that amount is correct. Andrew can let me know if I'm wrong.

It was carried forward. Why did it happen? I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the majority of our funding is human capital. It is individuals. People come and go, and you can't always predict that. When you bring them on, you get funding for them at the beginning of the year. If they arrive halfway through the year, then half of their salary is unused.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Right.

[Karen Hogan]

It just normally happens. We also have to monitor when we get our supply. There's a bit of a risk, and a bit of the funds are always left unspent at the end of the year.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

There are external factors, then.

I was very interested in your comment about the implications of technology, showing that you could hire auditors from across Canada. I'm thinking that in Guelph we have some federal offices for agriculture.

As the gold standard of auditing, you always think of the Auditor General's office. Internationally, we're also thought of that way. This could really create an audit community across Canada. Could you comment on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Please give a very short answer, Ms. Hogan.

[Karen Hogan]

It absolutely can. I'll selfishly ask all of you to let people know we're hiring. They should check out our website.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Ms. Hogan.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate the opportunity, even though we had so many technical difficulties.

Colleagues, I do have two questions for you.

Shall vote 1, less the amount of $58,563,393 granted in interim supply, carry?

OFFICE OF THE AUDITOR GENERAL

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$78,084,524

(Vote 1 agreed to)

Shall I report the vote on the main estimates to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.