Public Accounts Committee on May 6th, 2021

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Do you have access to enough information? We hear that in other countries, much more data is available to assess risks and see the results of the measures put in place. Is that the case? Do you agree with that statement?

[Michael Keenan]

Again, that's a great question. In fact, the improvements we're making, literally month by month and year by year, are pulling in more information to assess risk and identify risk. We're actually putting in regulatory standards to collect more information. One of them is the stricter standards on the rail information that companies have to supply. The second one is the regulations we put in place last year for locomotive video and voice recorders to create access to a new class of information to understand what was happening in the cab just before an incident in order to identify factors, human factors or potentially distraction factors, and improve safety systems.

We're always looking for more data, to answer the member's question, and we're bringing it in. We're also getting it formatted and structured so that we can apply advanced digital analytic tools. There are a few examples of where we're starting to do that in, I would say, a basic manner, and we want to go to a more advanced manner, including putting predictive analytics on the data we're collecting.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Keenan, would it be possible provide the committee with all the data available? I'm not talking about the multi-year numbers, but the various data you have in hand to assess the risk of collisions and accidents. In the Auditor General's report, these figures are quite summary. I'd like to have a complete picture.

[Michael Keenan]

We'd be happy to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold. I'm sure Mr. Keenan will send the information you've requested.

We will now move to Mr. Longfield for five minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Keenan, I'd like to continue on from some of my colleague Mr. Berthold's questions about data. Before I do that, though, in 2018 we did the Railway Safety Act review. I can remember the discussions in the House. I participated in the debates. One thing that was being debated was the use of video recorders within the cabs. You mentioned it briefly in your answer there.

There was significant investment allocated toward level crossings and track maintenance. I think 60 locomotives were added to help with grain movement out west. A lot of people were added in terms of the number of engineers operating vehicles on tracks. A number of investments could have increased the risk profile if we didn't keep up with infrastructure improvements, such as video recorders and gauging of tracks.

When you're doing your risk analysis, are you using the investments as one of the drivers of risk as well, in terms of the number of cars on the tracks and the amount of vehicle movement happening?

[Michael Keenan]

It's a great question. We certainly are taking into account all of those factors, I would say, and are looking across....

I'll give you an example. We saw a that pattern of main track derailments was sneaking up, and we were very concerned. We pulled all the data we could and started doing data analytics on it. I don't want to oversell it. It was basically detailed Excel spreadsheets looking for trends and variances, etc. We found a pattern related to ambient temperature on the day of the accident and whether or not the track was signalled—i.e., it had a system to automatically identify broken rail and speed. We put in place the higher-risk key train rule last year to get at that.

Infrastructure is a big part of it. I would say the data we're seeing and the analyses we're seeing are taking us to a broader dimension that is getting more into human factors. It's not traditionally been part of the rail safety system, where we've focused on the rolling stock and the track and the procedures, but, for example, we've changed the work/rest rules for fatigue. I think we're broadening out the number of things we look at. As data comes in, we're finding factors that we may not have been looking at in the past that we see as being significant in outcomes.

That's why LVVR, locomotive voice and video recorders, are so important. We think there are some subtle human factors that we can understand by analyzing the patterns related to cab activity before incidents.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Fatigue science and duty rest rules are absolutely needed for the safety of the operators, given how incredibly dangerous the equipment they're operating can be when they're not operating effectively.

I also want to touch on some of the data coming out of your reports—the fatalities resulting from railway operations dropping by 27% and the number of accidents decreasing by 12%. Do you have a comment to make on the goals? Are you achieving goals? Are you reporting results against goals? Is reducing fatalities by 27% on target, or were you hoping for better? Where are we at on the analysis going forward?

[Michael Keenan]

Madam Chair, the member has cut to the fundamental objective, which is to get the fundamentally important things like accidents and deaths down.

We see it heading in the right direction. Accidents and deaths are down while the number of trains and the revenue ton-miles are up. The accident rate is down, certainly—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

That's as volume is increasing.

[Michael Keenan]

It's as volume is increasing. I don't think we have any—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I just want to—

[Michael Keenan]

I'll say one thing. Our goal is zero, and we're going to keep doing stuff to get as close as we can.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

In Guelph we have the Guelph Junction Railway. It's one of three federally regulated railways in Canada. They've just done significant track work on gauging. The neighbours weren't happy with all of the construction. We've also closed one of the level crossings in Guelph, where the visibility sight lines for vehicle traffic weren't safe enough.

There are actually investments going forward that might help you with those targets. We see them in our communities. I wanted to thank you for that.

[Michael Keenan]

Thank you.

I would just say, Madam Chair, that the member has identified a key issue, which is the level crossings. The safety result depends on our rules and the railways' operations, but what the landowners and others are doing around those crossings is a key area of focus going forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much.

We will now move into our next round of questioning, which is another six-minute round, starting with Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Keenan, given that we've been talking a lot about the Lac-Mégantic tragedy, I'd like you to update the committee on the status of the Lac-Mégantic bypass. The minister has confirmed that there are plans to complete the work by 2023.

Are you still optimistic about that?

[Michael Keenan]

We are working very hard on the rail bypass project, in close co-operation with CP.

In one way it took a little bit of time when CP bought CMQR. In another way we're very pleased because they are a large outfit that has the ability to marshal massive resources in building. We're working through details very intensely with CP. We believe we're establishing a very clear path forward to get this done around the target timeline. In terms of the details of next steps, I think there are a couple of small things we want to absolutely finalize with the operator.

We are working really hard to be able to share more information on the timing of next steps. In terms of completing the voie de contournement, I can tell you it it is a top priority on the part of Transport Canada to get that done.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That's good to hear, Mr. Keenan.

There's a part of the work that is left to do under the Government of Canada.

Among other things, I'm thinking of the land acquisition process.

In this regard, is all the work that the Government of Canada is responsible for under way? Are things going well or not?

[Michael Keenan]

Land acquisition is always a sensitive issue in a project like this, but we have done a lot of preparatory work for the next step, which is land acquisition. We will soon be ready to contact the owners of the land involved in the project.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

You may recall that I was a member of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities when it met in Lac-Mégantic, where we met with stakeholders. At the time, there was talk of setting up an institute to train people in rail safety. This project has been presented several times and rejected by Transport Canada. Today, we are still talking about training first responders and the people involved.

Why did this project not receive approval from Transport Canada to build on the lessons learned from what we experienced in Lac-Mégantic and prevent similar tragedies from happening again?

[Michael Keenan]

Madam Chair, the member has asked a good question. We continue to look at areas of action and investment to strengthen training, performance and safety results.

I have to confess that I can't remember all the details of that proposal because it was in circulation a couple of years ago, so I don't have at my fingertips specific information that I can share at this time, but I'd be happy to provide it.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I will be happy to send you the proposal just as you will send us some statistics.

[Michael Keenan]

Sure. I remember the proposal. I just can't remember all the details. Thank you for offering to resend it.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That's great, because I think training is one matter of importance when we have a tragedy. Waiting until the next tragedy before acting is just bad. We can do something right now, and I hope that we can do it working together, because we all want a better rail safety system in Canada and for it to be at the highest level.