Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 17th, 2020

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Perhaps I may turn to the clerk to provide us with an update on the calendar and on the public accounts we were looking to study next week.

Madam Clerk, go ahead.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Angela Crandall]

That is correct. We don't know exactly when the public accounts will be tabled. It has been indicated it will probably be some time next week.

At the discretion of the chair, we moved a few meetings around. Instead of doing the public accounts, we will do the immigration removals on Tuesday. Then the workshop that the committee members had asked for from the Canadian Audit and Accountability Foundation has been scheduled, as well as a presentation from them on the public accounts.

As long as the public accounts are tabled next week, the committee would meet next Tuesday, December 1 to discuss public accounts.

We had a calendar, but we also had a bit of flexibility to move things around depending on when the public accounts were tabled. Rather than waiting and not having a meeting, we took the liberty of making those arrangements for the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Madam Clerk.

To add to that, we wanted to give the witnesses as much time as possible to prepare for a meeting, should we not see the tabling of the public accounts. That is why we went ahead with putting in place a couple of other meetings in the event that they weren't tabled in time, and in order to give our members time to study them and come prepared to look at them on December 1.

Certainly, we are open to the will of the committee in regard to the calendar.

I will turn to Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We do have quite a packed schedule of reports. There are a number of reports to get through and backlog reports to get to.

I'm curious as to how this is going to fit in, because we don't want to delay anything anymore. We want to get a lot of the work done. I don't know how having additional meetings on this one topic is going to allow us to do that. I want to make sure that we are able to get through the workload that the subcommittee has decided upon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you.

Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Rather than taking more committee time on this, we do have some estimates to approve for our studies. I think if we did refer this to subcommittee, they could have a more substantive discussion and then come back to us with what this would mean to our schedule. We were booked up until the holiday season.

Maybe there are other ways we could get the information being requested in the motion. Maybe we could ask for some written submissions to come back to us.

I haven't had a chance to really look at the motion yet. Let's see if we can get this into a subcommittee outside of committee business and come back to the committee with recommendations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Longfield.

Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I've taken note of what my colleagues have said. In fact, what Mr. Berthold said was entirely accurate. As regards the action plan update, we received no recent figures today.

I'd be prepared to compromise, to find common ground on which to agree with my colleagues. I would suggest only one meeting instead of two, and I would amend the wording of my motion. I think we can make a decision together here without necessarily referring the matter to the subcommittee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

If there are no more speakers, we would move to calling the question on Mr. Blanchette-Joncas'—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam President, before you call for a vote, I would point out that there were two persons on the speakers list. I raised my hand, and Mr. Blois did as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

My apologies.

Mr. Berthold, you are next.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to tell Mr. Longfield that it's impossible to hold a subcommittee meeting without having to take the committee's timeslot. That's why I think it would be preferable to proceed immediately with the motion. We'll have to have a subcommittee meeting in any case. So I agree on my colleague's motion that we hold one meeting and ask the departments to provide us with their updated action plans.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Blois.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to ask the clerk.... And I don't mean to suggest that Mr. Berthold isn't correct in his assumption. In the agriculture committee, for example, we have had subcommittee meetings outside of scheduled times. His comment seemed to suggest that we would have to take an entire meeting to do so. I don't think this is the case. Perhaps I'm wrong, but perhaps you would refer that particular point to the clerk.

Going back to Mr. Blanchette-Joncas' motion, again I've said that I found the topic interesting. I thought it warranted more study, if that is the will of the committee. I don't see the rush. I don't see why it's so important. This issue is not going away any time soon. We have already pre-scheduled work that the subcommittee has agreed upon.

I think there's a general will of the committee that this would be something we'd explore at some time. Why not kick it to the subcommittee to have that conversation, assuming that it can happen outside of the scheduled meeting, and schedule it for a time down the road when it makes sense and we're not going to interrupt our existing work?

Mr. Berthold seems to suggest that's reasonable, but I'll defer back to you guys.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

Thank you very much, Mr. Blois.

Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I think Mr. Blois made my point.

I want to get to letting the clerk do her job in terms of our budget.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

The clerk advises me that we must continue the discussion on the motion since it was introduced, and proceed to a vote on the motion, if that is the will of Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just want to clarify for my colleagues that I am open to discussing terms, as I mentioned earlier. I don't think there's any urgency as it will take some time before we can get figures on the departments' action plans.

In my humble opinion, it would be realistic to do this, if my colleagues are in agreement, before the House rises for the holidays.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly Block]

It is my assumption that we will now move to calling the question on Mr. Blanchette-Joncas' motion.

Madam Clerk.

[The Clerk]

If there's no agreement, then we'll probably come to a recorded division on the motion of Mr. Blanchette to hold one more meeting on the subject of e-commerce taxation audit, of the Auditor General's reports.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Chair, just so I'm clear, when I'm asked on the recorded division here, this is to host another meeting on this particular subject before the holiday break, before Christmas. It's not clear to me exactly what we are even voting on right now.

[The Clerk]

I believe Mr. Blanchette-Joncas said that he would like the meeting to be before Christmas, so it would be that the committee hold another meeting on the study on the taxation of e-commerce before the Christmas break.

If everyone is clear on the question, then I would....

Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Madam Chair, can we verify with the clerk whether we need to state in the motion that we will need action plans from the departments, or does that go without saying?

[The Clerk]

Okay, then we'll try the motion one more time.

That the committee hold one further meeting on the study on Report 3, Taxation of E-Commerce, of the 2019 Spring Reports of the Auditor General of Canada, and that the departments involved be invited to provide updated action plans to fall 2020, and that the meeting be held before Christmas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you for that clarification.

I accept the amendment to the motion.