Evidence of meeting #109 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dalian.
A video is available from Parliament.
Business Owner, Dalian Enterprises Inc.
Absolutely—all of it, so I have lots of comments.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
That's great. By “read into”, you mean you read it.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You read it and determined that the Auditor General—who is by definition a general, with an army of auditors, which should be easy for you to understand, based on your experience—and her whole army of auditors was wrong and this one-man army was right. But you've offered a series of assertions in your committee appearances that aren't true. Those have been highlighted by members of other parties and by my colleagues.
Even just today, you said that you're a member of the Conservative Party, and that's not true. You haven't been a member of the Conservative Party since 2021.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
No, that's fine. We know how—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Order.
Just one second. I'm going to stop the clock.
First, that is a prop and it is not allowed. Second, that is a donor card. It's not a membership card. We all get them to try to get money.
Mr. Barrett, you have a minute and a half.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
So it's a donor card. Again, what you're offering is not an honest representation of what you're doing. I know that you thought it would be a great gotcha moment, but it demonstrated that you're not being truthful, sir.
When it comes down to your not knowing the difference between being a member of a party and making a donation to a party, should we really trust your assessment on whether or not the Auditor General of Canada is wrong in the amount of business you've done with the Government of Canada? I'm inclined to trust the Auditor General, just as I know that I can trust membership services: They knew that whatever it was you were going to hold up wasn't going to be what you said it was. While your misrepresentations vary, that's just another great example that we can't trust what you've said to be true. It gives rise to more questions than it does answers.
I'll cede my time back to the chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
I'll turn now to Mr. Jowhari.
Thank you for joining us, Mr. Jowhari. You have the floor for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to be here once again.
Mr. Yeo, I'd like to go back to ArriveCAN. Can you kindly tell me how the contract for ArriveCAN came to Dalian?
Business Owner, Dalian Enterprises Inc.
My understanding is that we never had an ArriveCAN contract. This was all through staff augmentation contracts that were competitively awarded to Dalian on behalf of the CBSA. My understanding is that it was through staff augmentation contracts.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
On the staff augmentation contract that was awarded to Dalian on behalf of CBSA, how did that come about?
Business Owner, Dalian Enterprises Inc.
Again, I'm buried two gates deep at DND, and I don't have the exact aspects of how that actually transpired. I could ask our staff and get back to you.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Yes. I would appreciate it if you could provide that to the committee.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Sir, you indicated that the amount of the contract was $4.9 million. The amount for staff augmentation was $4.9 million over three years for 20 employees at 100 hours. You called that part time. Is that correct?
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
If my math holds—$1.6 million divided by 20, divided by 100—you are charging about $815 an hour, whereas GC Strategies, for ArriveCAN, was charging $1,200 plus. Can you explain why? Can you tell me what your team, that 20-person team, was doing for CBSA?
Business Owner, Dalian Enterprises Inc.
I'm not exactly sure of their specific tasks, because this goes into staff augmentation. The people who went into it were in software development, testing, project management, technology architecture and cybersecurity. Once they got over to the CBSA through the staff augmentation contract, it was really up to the technical authority to drive whatever business needs were happening on that side.
To get to your question about the 20 people on the contract, my understanding, from what my staff has provided me, is that the bill rates ranged from $540 to $1,000 per day, depending on the service.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay. That is pretty much aligned with what the Auditor General was talking about as a rate, but that's very different from the rate that GC Strategies was charging.
Was Dalian dealing directly with the CBSA, or was it through another organization?
Business Owner, Dalian Enterprises Inc.
My understanding is that Dalian was the prime contractor for these contracts, so yes, we were dealing directly with the CBSA.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay.
Of the 20 employees who worked on that project, how many of them were indigenous?
Business Owner, Dalian Enterprises Inc.
There are 20 IT professional consultants—not employees—but I would have to check with our staff to see if any of them are actually indigenous.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Of the projects that you have worked on with the Government of Canada, whether as a subcontractor or whether it was your employer, how many of them have been indigenous?