Public Accounts Committee on April 3rd, 2024

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Just one second, Mr. Brock.

Mrs. Shanahan.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

It's just on this “Government of Canada” that Mr. Brock is referring to. Is this an official name? I'm just confused. It's GC Strategies, as far as I know.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mrs. Shanahan, that's not a point of order. If the witness is seeking clarity, they're entitled to ask, but not members.

Mr. Brock, if you want to ask your question again, I'll give you time.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I will. That's fine.

For Mrs. Shanahan's benefit, I'll note that it was Mr. Firth himself who confirmed that the “GC” stands for “Government of Canada”—not my words. That's from your witness, Mrs. Shanahan.

Mr. Firth, through GC Strategies, created his own terms and drafted his own contract, which, surprisingly, he actually won, for 25 million Canadian taxpayer dollars. Who at CBSA allowed that to happen?

[Jonathan Moor]

Well, as I think I've said previously, it is unacceptable—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

No, sir. I know it's unacceptable. Everyone knows it's unacceptable.

You're the one responsible. You're accountable for this mess. You're accountable for failures.

Now provide us some answers. Who at the CBSA—I want names and I want positions—allowed Government of Canada Strategies to draft their own contract worth 25 million taxpayer dollars? Give names, sir.

[Jonathan Moor]

Well, as I've said before, the border technologies and innovation directorate was responsible for that—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Give me a name, not a department.

[Jonathan Moor]

Well, the DG was Mr. MacDonald, and the executive director was Mr. Utano. They were responsible for drafting that statement—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Are you saying that it was Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano who allowed GC Strategies to write their own contract? Is that your evidence?

[Jonathan Moor]

I'm not saying those two, but I'm saying that's what—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That's the question I'm putting to you, sir. How much simpler can I phrase it?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Who at CBSA allowed this—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Wait one second, Mr. Brock.

Ms. Khalid, what is your point of order?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

With the years of experience we've had, we treat our witnesses with a bit more respect than how Mr. Brock is treating our witnesses right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is not a point of order. Mr. Brock is trying to get an answer and is becoming rightly frustrated, the way a lot of Canadians are.

Mr. Brock, you have the floor again.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Moor, let's not play games. The question is simple. Who—give me a name—at CBSA allowed Government of Canada Strategies to write their own contract, which they won, for $25 million? Give me names, please.

[Jonathan Moor]

Well, I think I've already given you names—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You gave me names. You gave me Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano. I asked you whether they were responsible for allowing GC to write the contract and you said no. The question now is, sir, who at CBSA allowed it?

[Jonathan Moor]

I've said I do not know because it is under investigation, and that is the key part of the investigation internally—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

How could you not know?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Just one second, Mr. Brock.

Ms. Khalid.