Public Accounts Committee on April 30th, 2024

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank my Conservative colleagues for the opportunity to use their time.

A 2014 Public Safety Canada report acknowledged systemic violence when one service organization reported that an encounter with the police means arrest or rape.

Do you understand the gravity of the violence your institution has perpetrated and continues to perpetrate?

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

Certainly. Yes, we understand the challenges and the history of our organization. Much of the work we're doing looks toward the future of enhancing that trust.

In short, yes, we do.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

We've heard these kinds of responses before.

I'm a young member of Parliament. I've been here three years. I've heard that statement time and time again. It becomes a question of when that will actually take place.

I find that institutions only respond to force. When it comes to why you won't do these things, it's, “Well, we'll look to the future.” Who can't look to the future are those children—the little girls—who go missing, the women who are murdered and the people's families, who are left behind. They can't wait for that, Mr. Larkin.

The question becomes at what point we just call it quits and say the RCMP is corrupt and we need to start over. We have to seriously ask that question.

When it comes to institutions that fail us, we require a very serious and a very important review of the actual work the RCMP does. If the trust is so incredibly broken, Mr. Larkin—you've acknowledged that—at what point can a partner continue to beg for proper protection when you can't even guarantee...? Three days ago, one of your officers was charged with child exploitation.

Who holds you accountable, Mr. Larkin?

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

First, there are a number of initiatives that are ongoing to address a series of recommendations that have—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I'm sorry. I have limited time.

Who holds the RCMP accountable?

[D/Commr Bryan Larkin]

The commissioner reports to the Minister of Public Safety.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much.

That's an important piece to it. The Minister of Public Safety is aware of this.

Deputy Minister, have you responded to or met with the Minister of Public Safety with regard to these serious concerns?

[Shawn Tupper]

The minister would deal more directly with the RCMP as part of that operational organization—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Have you advised that the RCMP should be held accountable for this?

[Shawn Tupper]

I have not.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you for your honesty. It's important that we have honest representation of this fact.

Will you commit to bringing up this serious matter with the minister? If it's the minister's job to hold the RCMP accountable, will you please inform him of this emergency?

Children can't wait. We can't wait for this moment and this future beautiful time. Countless victims are awaiting justice.

Will you commit to informing the minister that we need a process of immediate accountability and a process to inform justice, and a review of the RCMP's conduct from the top?

[Shawn Tupper]

I commit to raising these issues with my minister.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much.

I do want to move now to an issue related to funding.

Public Safety holds funds because they're attached to older funding models from first nations. Allowing provinces and territories to leave these funding models goes against the constitutional rights of first nations. Consultation with first nations is imperative.

How do we intend to fix this issue, Deputy Minister?

[Shawn Tupper]

For the past two years, we have been out engaging with communities.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Have you read the Constitution, in terms of jurisdiction? You've commented on jurisdiction several times. Have you read section 91 of the Constitution, regarding number 24 under the classes of subjects? ?

[Shawn Tupper]

Is that the section that defines federal responsibility towards Indian people and Indian lands?

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Yes. Have you read that?

[Shawn Tupper]

Yes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

So why is it that a federal government that has whole jurisdictional power over first nations reserves is using the excuse of a jurisdictional barrier by a province?

[Shawn Tupper]

It's not an excuse. The reality is that the administration of justice is a provincial responsibility. We cannot go into provincial territory and implement laws or construct organizations that are outside the bounds of provincial and territorial law. That is also defined in the Constitution. We work with the provinces, and that is why the 52—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Who suffers from this jurisdictional football passing?

[Shawn Tupper]

I don't believe that it's football passing.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Well, the courts have ruled several times actually. They have said that before.

[Shawn Tupper]

The reason we have a split in the funding that recognizes a 52% contribution from the federal government—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

The AFN has said they've been stonewalled by your ministry.