Public Accounts Committee on May 16th, 2024

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I'm sorry. I think it's germane, but we're going to circle back to it.

We know PricewaterhouseCoopers does significant business with the Government of Canada, and formerly did business with the agency that you were the head of, which is the CBSA. You talked about taking casual employment with the CBSA so that you could access information while you were concurrently working in a senior strategic advisory role for PricewaterhouseCoopers. It's a firm that does significant business with the Government of Canada—it's an amount so great and so sensitive that you're not even prepared to disclose it to the committee today.

Did you have any restraints put on you on the information you were able to access when you were employed by the current president of the CBSA in preparation for your testimony before a parliamentary committee?

[John Ossowski]

The letter of offer that I signed had conflict of interest provisions in it. I had access to my email, my calendar and other documents associated with events in the emails and the calendar.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

To be clear, the events—

[John Ossowski]

If I may finish, I recused myself from all work with CBSA while at PWC.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

We've seen the record of the CBSA on conflicts of interest under your leadership. We heard testimony from CBSA officials about boozy dinners with contractors working for the CBSA, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't put great stock in the seriousness with which you viewed the conflict of interest requirements that you said you would follow.

You said you had access to any documents related to items in your calendar and email. As the president of the CBSA, I'd imagine that would be pretty significant. For a firm that hired the former head of the CBSA, had previously done business with the CBSA and has done in excess of tens of millions of dollars, if not hundreds of millions of dollars, in business with the Government of Canada, it seems there would be a commercial advantage to having its senior adviser, an executive with this firm, gain access to all of the information from your calendar, emails and associated documents when you were given that employment by Ms. O'Gorman.

On what date were you given access to the CBSA?

[John Ossowski]

I don't recall the specific date. It was some time in January, initially, to prepare for January 18, and it was restarted in February.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Can you please furnish this committee with the assigned offer of employment?

[John Ossowski]

I believe that's in the possession of the agency. I don't have a copy of it myself.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You don't have copies of any of the employment documents. You took a job with the CBSA and didn't keep a copy. Is that correct?

[John Ossowski]

I'll look for it, but I think you would be better off getting that from the agency. They would have a record of that.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

If you have it, it would be best to get it from you, because we've asked you for it.

[John Ossowski]

I will look for it, and if I have it, I will certainly provide it.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You were paid for your casual employment to access the documents in preparation for your testimony. Is that correct?

[John Ossowski]

I was asked to submit hours for my preparation, and I submitted one day.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

How much were you paid?

[John Ossowski]

It was roughly $500.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You were paid $500 to get access to internal files and documents, which, as I think I've already articulated, is a highly questionable decision and certainly raises ethical questions based on your current employment and your employer's interest in commercially sensitive information at the CBSA.

Do you have a list of all of the documents, or are you still in possession of the documents that you retrieved in preparation for your committee appearance?

[John Ossowski]

The one document I was actually provided with, besides looking at my emails and calendars, was the ATIP that was provided to OGGO. That is several hundred pages long, and I did not even look at it.

I know you asked Ms. O'Gorman for the forensics of what I touched when I was in there, and I'll leave it up to her to provide that information to you. I think you'll find it fairly underwhelming.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I find it very interesting, because the current president of the CBSA said you had access to any of the documents you would have had access to when you were president of the CBSA.

[John Ossowski]

While that may be the case, I did not access anything or take any advantage that would put me in any conflict of interest.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Again, I can't take at face value the seriousness with which you've approached the conflict of interest document that you signed, knowing the casual relationship with the avoidance of conflict of interest that the department had under your leadership.

What better way is there for a big consulting firm to drum up new business with the CBSA, which had been cutting big cheques with very little accountability, than to have the agency's former president, now the firm's employee, given access to all of the documents he had while working as the head of that agency?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mr. Barrett.

[John Ossowski]

Mr. Chair, I feel compelled to respond to this.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'll allow it.

Go ahead.

[John Ossowski]

Thank you.

Given all that has gone on in this ArriveCAN discussion over the last couple of years, do you really believe that I would further put myself into jeopardy by pursuing something that had some conflict of interest?