Public Accounts Committee on May 16th, 2024

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you, Chair. It's a pleasure to be here this morning, bright and early out here in British Columbia.

I sit on the international trade committee, and we've studied the ArriveCAN situation from the perspective of how it affected movement and trade across the border. Here we are today, talking more about the financial misdoings, I would say.

All of this irresponsibility, in addition to the facts the Auditor General has brought to light, leads me to believe there was misconduct or, at the very least, some terrible management practices at the highest level of the CBSA. There was no formal agreement between PHAC and the CBSA between April 2020 and July 2021 to clarify roles and responsibilities. There was the absence of a designated lead, and good project management practices—such as developing project objectives, goals, budgets, cost estimates and risk management activities—weren't carried out. There was also a lack of financial record-keeping. Eventually, it became impossible to have a check and balance system.

My simple overall question is this: Wouldn't you say, in the end, that this is your legacy and that the CBSA, under your tenure, is responsible for this?

[John Ossowski]

There are lots of regrets here around things the Auditor General and others have found out about how this happened. I would say, as I said in my opening remarks, that this was an emergency situation. Eventually, we had an agreement with the Public Health Agency, which was the business owner of the app.

There should have been better documentation. There should have been better recognition of the controls and procedures, and I regret that that did not happen under my watch. I hope that's not my sole legacy as the president of the CBSA.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those are all the questions I have.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Next up, we have Mr. Brock for five minutes, please.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You said Minh Doan didn't choose GC Strategies. Who did?

[John Ossowski]

This has come up multiple times—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Just give me a name, sir.

[John Ossowski]

I think the question and the issue are really who proposed GC Strategies—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Just give me a name, sir. Who ultimately signed off on and chose GC Strategies? It's a simple question. I want a simple answer.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair. I want to get your attention.

I think the tone of the questioning from my colleague on the opposition side.... We've had a really good meeting today, and the tone of his questions, to start off here, has veered off to somewhere that is, if I can use the word, disrespectful. I think that would probably be apt.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I don't think it's disrespectful. It's certainly sharp, but it's within Mr. Brock's ability to decide how he would like to question the witness. It has certainly been respectful.

Mr. Brock, you have four minutes and 40 seconds.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Give us a name, please.

[John Ossowski]

I do not know who chose GC Strategies. The Auditor General was also not able to determine who chose GC Strategies.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, sir. This is my time.

For the record, the president of the CBSA, an extremely large ministry, is unable to give evidence to this committee as to who ultimately chose GC Strategies. That's absolutely incredible, sir.

Moving on, I want you to table, within three weeks, all emails and attachments sent to you by Erin O'Gorman since you left the agency.

A document tabled by the CBSA called—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Hold on. I want to get an acknowledgement from the witness if he's prepared to do that. Generally, and I'm sure you're aware of this, committees, or members, through committees, can request information. Is that something you'd be prepared to provide to us or—

[John Ossowski]

You're asking for all emails that I received from Ms. O'Gorman.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Is that correct, Mr. Brock? I stopped the clock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It's all emails, all attachments and any other pieces of correspondence since you left the agency....

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay, I think that's clear. Thank you.

[John Ossowski]

I'd be happy to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Brock, you have four minutes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

There's a document, which came out of the Auditor General's report, from the CBSA called “Lessons Learned”. A highlight in the conclusion of that document indicates that a central governance authority was needed. You previously said that you briefed ministers and cabinet during your tenure as president. Did you raise that issue with them?

[John Ossowski]

I'm not aware of the document that Mr. Brock is referring to.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm asking about the concept of a central governance authority. Did you raise that with ministers and cabinet?

[John Ossowski]

I have no recollection of raising that with ministers or cabinet.