Public Accounts Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[Joshua LaRocque]

Yes.

As Stephanie mentioned, we do have some programs that are focused on remote passenger rail service. Budget 2024 renewed one of the key programs, the remote passenger rail program, which provides funding for two indigenous organizations: one, the Keewatin from The Pas southwards in Manitoba; and two, the Tshiuetin, in a rail line from Quebec to Labrador. These are key programs that allow people to participate in food, social and ceremonial practices, and that equally allow for egress from a community in the case of an emergency where there's no road.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Once again, Mr. Viersen, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I again want to thank the witnesses for being here.

Greece, South Korea, Ukraine, Japan, Germany, Poland and Latvia have all showed up asking Canada to provide them with LNG. I'm interested a bit more around how the government comes up with.... I see the number of different calls they've set up. How do they come up with the proposals? Where and how do they decide which area of transportation they want to pursue? Has there been a proposal by Transport Canada to the minister, which the minister has rejected, around getting LNG to market?

[Stephanie Hébert]

In terms of designing calls, as previously mentioned, we work really closely with our policy colleagues to look at where there are constraints and issues in the transportation system that need to be addressed, and where potential federal participation can assist that. You'll see in the different calls—and I think that's even reflected in the Auditor General's report—that one of the calls we did was about trade diversification. It was really focused on how to diversify and to support access to overseas markets. At the time when that was done, between 2019 and 2021, that was seen as a really important priority to advance.

Later on, with the fifth call that we did—when we did the call that was really targeted at the fluidity of Canada's supply chains—there again we had strengthening Canada's connections to global markets, but we wanted to also look at how we build internal trade corridors, and so that became the focus of the call that we had. Part of that was based on feedback we had received from different partners, including a partner like Alberta, for instance, that they wanted to, through others, get their goods to market, and that sometimes, based on how we did the other calls, it might have more favoured ports and provinces that have a lot of ports. All of that is guided by economic analysis and research to help us. What we seek to do is to try to have some consistency, but as well to be agile and adapt to where we feel the Canadian economy is and to how we can best support that through different investments and trade corridors.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

It was noted that Canadian LNG could displace coal-fired power generation around the world, which would have dramatic environmental implications for the whole world. Do you know whether the department will be pursuing a call eight? What will it take for it to pursue an LNG proposal?

[Stephanie Hébert]

LNG could be part of the proposals. In terms of an eighth call, I don't have a line of sight at this moment of when we would be doing another call.

What I can tell you is that, in the interim, to inform our thinking for that call there are two things that we are currently doing as a department. One is that a commitment was made to work through the federal councils of ministers to consult and work with provincial and territorial partners to understand their priorities for the transportation infrastructure. That was reinforced in the communiqué that was issued by the transportation ministers after their annual meeting. Two, the supply chain office has been very active in its engagement directly with stakeholders to also understand their needs and priorities. That input, along with the analysis that we will do, are really what will inform our thinking in terms of where we need to take the program and, if we were to do another call, what that call would focus on.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Have the LNG requests from these other countries made it across your desk at all?

[Stephanie Hébert]

In terms of my involvement, it would be that, if there were a specific LNG project and if the proponent had submitted a national trade corridor fund application, we would be looking at it based on the merits of the call. LNG is something that would be eligible if it were able to demonstrate that it met the merits of the call, so it's not something that we are prioritizing but it is not something that is ineligible. It is something that, through the assessment process, we will most definitely consider.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you. Thank you to the witnesses for coming.

Ms. Hébert, I noticed that twice you tried to finish your statements for a previous question. Do you still have a statement you'd like to finish?

[Stephanie Hébert]

That's very kind, Mr. Chair, but I must confess that I have lost my train of thought, so I welcome the question.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

In your opening statement, Ms. Hébert, you talked about optimal supply chains through digitization. Can you elaborate on that?

[Stephanie Hébert]

Yes. I'll start with the broad strokes in terms of what we wanted to achieve through the advancing of the supply chain digitization call, and then I'll turn to my colleague to provide some tangible, concrete examples.

What we wanted to do was really look at how, through industry-led projects, we could improve asset and operation management. Fundamentally, it was about coordination and optimization and how we could encourage people to work together through data sharing, information sharing and collaboration to alleviate bottlenecks and really help boost network fluidity.

[Joshua LaRocque]

As Stephanie mentioned, the call targeted proposals that would prioritize industry-led projects in this case. The provinces and territories were encouraged to participate as funding partners or to endorse the projects, but it really prioritized those industry-led projects that would strengthen digital infrastructure but also start building networks of partners together so that we would use digital tools, systems and practices to achieve greater supply chain fluidity, instead of only infrastructure solutions.

Like all of the calls so far, it was very successful. It was oversubscribed significantly, but 23 projects were approved for about $57 million through that call.

If I have time, I'll give a quick example of a network of partners that submitted a proposal. The Western Canadian Shippers' Coalition submitted a project requesting about $2 million. That coalition represents 28 different groups who are coming together to share information and build partnerships so that they can prevent supply chain bottlenecks from occurring just because someone doesn't have information about a particular good, a particular route or a particular arrival time.

These are great projects, where we're really interested in their impact and how we can encourage this type of work with partners in the future.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Do you have any examples from the greater Toronto area?

[Joshua LaRocque]

I don't have one on hand. We did have projects throughout the country, but there is certainly a project at the Hamilton-Oshawa Port Authority. I just don't have the details off the top of my head, but I'd be happy to provide those details to you in writing.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

While we're on the thought of projects, what do you think are the top three projects Canadians would want to know about that would provide value from this fund?

[Joshua LaRocque]

That is a tough question. I think there are some projects that are immediately responsive to some economic development initiatives of the government.

For example, at Bécancour in Quebec, there is a port project that is aiming to encourage and facilitate some of the battery production activities around that area. When we see co-operation between projects and other initiatives of the government or of the private sector, we're really happy about that co-operation, because it means there's a meaningful impact.

Certainly, there have been a number of projects at the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, for example, that allow for the movement in and out of the country of the vast majority of goods that come into the country. That connected infrastructure that brings goods from all parts of the country outside of Canada is an effective example of the sort of integration.

Those integrated projects are the most impactful, I would say.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I know you spoke briefly on the Arctic and Canada's north being able to participate in this fund. How are the indigenous communities involved?

[Stephanie Hébert]

To address this question, what I'd like to do is offer four points, but I think first and foremost it's really important for us that we facilitate indigenous interests and participation both in the economy and in the supply chain. We've looked at how that can help us and how that can inform project selection but also project implementation.

First, on eligible recipients, in terms of the eligibility, indigenous organizations are an eligible recipient. They are eligible to apply. I did refer earlier to a project that is being led by the Metlakatla Development Corporation. That is in Prince Rupert, where they are leading a project. This is a project to convert lands to an export and import logistics facility and a container yard. I think it's a concrete example of how, as a recipient and as a project proponent, they're actively participating in the program.

Second, what I would say is that when we do evaluate project proposals that we receive, we do look at community support. Depending on where the project is located, if we're not seeing an indication of support from first nations, Inuit or Métis who may be living adjacent to or by these projects, we will follow up with the applicant to find out what is that level of support, what is that level of involvement and what is that level of engagement.

The third thing I would say is that our clauses, also in the agreements, require that each project proponent fulfill its obligations in terms of duty to consult, in terms of that they uphold any recipient rights that may be impacted by the project. That rests with the recipient and that's something that we do monitor and oversee.

Last, what I would say is that oftentimes when projects are implemented—and we see this I think more with port projects—there often is an existing benefit agreement, where there is the opportunity to benefit from, where there is an intersection with rights or the opportunity to participate in the execution of the project. Sometimes that is done through participation, through contracting and procurement, where indigenous organizations are given the opportunity to bid first to participate in the project delivery.

Those would be the four areas where I would say we're actively ensuring indigenous involvement in projects.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

I understand there are questions from two other members.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two minutes, if you like,

Afterwards, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné can speak if she wants to.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the support of our colleagues to ensure that I can ask this important question.

It's related to climate change. We see that affecting the Northwest Territories, the jurisdiction just north of where I am from. Also, we see that the Mackenzie and the Slave rivers are at an extreme low, and I mean an extreme low. I remember going up there.

There's a famous ferry, the Lafferty, that would take you across the Mackenzie. It's something that a lot of folks look forward to, but it's been dragging on the bottom of the river and is no longer operable. I'm sorry. It's the Deh Cho River. The community is trying to build a bridge. I understand that some of this funding might be supporting the bridge over the Deh Cho River.

In terms of ensuring there's acceleration to projects in particular regions that are more impacted by climate change, is there a plan or do you have changes or recommendations that could make it more resilient, to be more adaptive to the fact that climate change is affecting particular regions more than others?

[Stephanie Hébert]

I will start, and then I will turn to my colleague to maybe speak to some specific examples of projects that we have under way in collaboration with the Northwest Territories.

First and foremost, what I would say is that we try to move as quickly as project proponents, and that includes in terms of the agreement set-up and the agreement negotiation. We are respectful of the fact that oftentimes in doing these projects recipients also have environmental assessments that they need to undertake and they need to complete.

Because that's part of their requirements that they have to meet, we need to also allow them time to be able to complete some of those various processes, including in the territory. That sometimes impacts the pace of how quickly a project moves, but when we construct the agreement, when we construct the financing by fiscal year, we really make sure that it is led by the project proponent in terms of what their financial needs are, so that we can help accelerate the project.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you now have the floor for two minutes.