Evidence of meeting #126 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was kpmg.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
My start date was October 2009 as a full-time employee.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
Immediately prior to my departure to KPMG, I was the director general of cybersecurity and digital identity at the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Throughout your time, from 2009 to that point, would you say you had a good understanding of Canada's procurement system?
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
I think I had a decent understanding, for sure. I'd led a handful of procurement processes, but not a large number, if that's what the question is.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Were you familiar with the process, though—not so much the number, but the process—through which a private firm, in particular, could apply to the government's procurement system?
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
Thank you for the clarification. Yes, I am familiar with the procurement process, for sure.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
When was the last procurement process you undertook prior to your departure?
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
You're taking me back a bit. I'm going to guesstimate somewhere in the 2018 range.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Okay.
Your departure from the government was on what date?
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
In May 2020 a lot was going on, of course. We had a national and global pandemic.
It seems to me that it could have been the perspective of KPMG at the time to scout this kind of talent. Did they find you?
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
At the time, I was discussing post-government employment with a number of different organizations. I don't actually recall who emailed whom. I think it was kind of mutual. We had some mutual.... People know people in the city, and you sit down and say, would you be interested? It was one of those types of conversations to get it started.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
That's interesting. That is something the Auditor General warned us could be evident in this—these sit-downs, these gatherings, this community. From prior witnesses, we heard about these kinds of community meetings.
Were any of these community meetings you had with large firms like KPMG, and perhaps others, ever at a restaurant or a club or in a private venue outside of government precincts?
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
Absolutely not. No. I'm very well aware of the directive on conflict of interest and the restrictions around hospitality and gifts.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Where did these meetings happen? Where did KPMG meet you?
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
There were phone calls, to be honest, to start everything off. I started off with phone calls and emails, and ultimately—
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
You submitted that there was a community, and I highly doubt that it was only a phone call. You do understand that this information is extremely pertinent to our investigation here to understand this claim of the Auditor General, which I believe is worth our investigation, as to where and why and who met with you or other persons.
I'll give you one more opportunity. Was there ever an instance where you were invited to outside-work dinners or received gifts or favours of any kind?
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much.
In relation to Mr. Antonio Utano, did he direct you to work with GC Strategies?
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
As I mentioned earlier, when meeting with Mr. Utano after submitting the proposal, what he directed was for me to submit a copy of that proposal to Mr. Firth at GC Strategies, which I did.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Did you bring up any questions to Mr. Utano as to why you would do such a thing?
4:10 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
At that meeting we discussed the number of procurement options Mr. Utano had at his disposal, which I think I mentioned could have included the CEPS vehicle and opening an RFP from scratch, or using one of his existing vehicles. All options were discussed, so nothing stood out from that conversation.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
What stood out to me, and what I am starting to understand, is that in that conversation there is a legitimate claim that you were directed by Mr. Utano to work with GC Strategies. At the time of the procurement decision, did GC Strategies, and who they were and what they did, not get brought up in that meeting at all? The particular fact of them being a two-person company that did no work at all...did that ever come up?
4:15 p.m.
Partner, Cybersecurity, KPMG
No. Neither the number of employees of GC Strategies nor the work they were doing at the time with the CBSA was discussed. What was discussed was only that they had existing procurement vehicles that were set already with the CBSA.