Public Accounts Committee on June 6th, 2024

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you for that.

When your cabinet colleague, Minister Anand, appeared before us on April 18, she was very clear that it was the CBSA that was at fault for the ArriveCAN scandal and for the cost overruns. In fact, in a response to a question from Mr. Desjarlais, she said, “It was because the CBSA did not follow the rules.”

Do you agree with your cabinet colleague, Minister Anand, that the CBSA is the federal agency responsible for the cost overruns with the ArriveCAN scam?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I haven't had the benefit of seeing the information that perhaps Minister Anand has. I'm unable to come to that conclusion in the absence of that information or evidence.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

You have read the report, though. You've read the Auditor General's report.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Would you agree that it was CBSA that was primarily responsible for the—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I would agree that there were very significant deficiencies in the control of those contracts, but to actually determine.... It wasn't as clear, in the Auditor General's report that I read, as to the assignment of responsibility or blame.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

You were the minister for a significant period of time as public safety minister...under which CBSA is responsible.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Of course, no one can predict the future, but given the benefit of hindsight, would you not agree that there were deficient processes at CBSA that allowed for this app to be developed at a significant cost overrun? Would you at least accept that?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

John, as I tried to make clear earlier, when I was in that position, at no time did I ever authorize anyone in any of the agencies that I was responsible for as Minister of Public Safety to disobey the rules that were in place. There are well-articulated rules with respect to how these contracts are to be managed. At no time, unfortunately, was I made aware of the deficiencies that the Auditor General did a good job of bringing forward.

I can also tell you that in reading the Auditor General's report, we have fulfilled our responsibilities to act quickly to make sure that the deficiencies are properly addressed, that people are held to account and that we put in place appropriate measures to make sure that it does not happen again.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Would you perhaps agree, then, that your officials failed at that point in time? Did Mr. Ossowski fail at that time in properly ensuring that the agency had proper controls in place?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Respectfully, I don't believe I have enough information available to me to determine that exactly. However, as I've already indicated, the responsibility is primarily that of the deputy head of an agency. There is a level of responsibility there.

I've said as well, as the Minister of Public Safety, as I then was, that I also had the responsibility to ensure, when these deficiencies were identified, that we responded in an appropriate way, that people were held to account and that steps were taken to ensure that we maintained the integrity of those procurement processes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

When was the first time you learned of the existence of the company GC Strategies?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

It was when the Auditor General came out with her report. As I've already said, I'm not involved in any of our HR or procurement processes. I don't hire, and I don't authorize or approve any of those contracts.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Were you aware, prior to the Auditor General's report, of the concept of ghost contracting? Were you aware of that?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No, sir.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Okay. I just want you to clarify something. In your opening comments, you made a comment about two investigations related to David Yeo's employment and contracting. Am I correct in that there were two investigations—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's the information that I understand, from the former deputy minister.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Who undertook those investigations? Was it—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

My understanding is they were done within the department itself.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Okay. would you be willing to share those investigations with this committee?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

They're not my investigations. The department was doing an internal review of what had taken place and the processes. They investigated those matters.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

However, it was the Department of National Defence that undertook those investigations. Would the deputy minister be in a position to confirm whether she could share those reports with this committee?

[Stefanie Beck]

If I could clarify, one of them was with the Public Service Commission, about the external hiring process. Similarly, there was a report on the hiring process from the perspective within the department.