Public Accounts Committee on June 6th, 2024

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

When was the last time you engaged?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I believe I was in Six Nations last year, but we can check the exact date.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I would like to get the exact date.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I will get you the exact date. I visited not only Six Nations with the former chief, but also—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I have the floor.

You indicated to me that you responded.... I know you dislike that, but this is members' time, not the minister's time.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Brock, the minister is aware of the rules and that this is your time. We've gone over this before.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I don't think she is, Chair, but thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Brock, you have three minutes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

You responded almost a year and a half ago. In that particular letter, I'm sure you spelled out no specific timeline as to when this school is going to get the necessary funding.

How long do the children of my community—the children of the Six Nations community—have to suffer with inadequate funding? Why can't you write a cheque and find the necessary funding as we've been pressing your department to do for the better part of the entire tenure of your government?

What do you say to the people of the Six Nations?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

First, I say thank you for the visit and for the opportunity to work on the many issues that Six Nations continues to drive forward, including, I think, their incredible economic development success. I will say that we'll continue to work with them on the successful funding—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That is a non-answer. Thank you so much.

The AG's report underscores the long-standing health hazard posed by mould in first nations communities, and she concludes that ISC appears to struggle in fully understanding the severity of the issue.

I want to illustrate a case, again from my riding. The Gane Yohs medical centre of the Six Nations of the Grand River is the sole medical centre with federal employees providing vital dental and sexual health services. It was compelled to close due to a mould infestation. They reached out to you personally. You refused to meet with them.

This scenario should highlight the urgency of the situation.

When will your ministry earnestly address these matters, prioritize funding for this crucial medical centre and provide a meaningful response to the Six Nations community?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you for your question. I assume by the line of your questioning that, when indigenous items come up for voting in allocations of funds and in budgeting, you will vote in favour. I'll watch for your vote, because, in fact, as you know, we have a very significant infrastructure gap, and any appropriation of money from the federal treasury that goes towards indigenous spending is critically important to actually complete these kinds of projects.

I appreciate the question.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

When will you fund the mould removal so that the residents...? Twenty-five thousand residents of Six Nations do not have adequate medical services. That is an absolute disgrace, and it's on your shoulders, Minister. When are you going to clean up the mould?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I really look forward to the letter you'll write in support of my next budget ask, which will ensure Indigenous Services Canada has a significant investment in closing infrastructure gaps so that we more quickly can build the infrastructure across the country that I hear you agreeing we need to do quickly.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. That is the time, I'm afraid.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister Hajdu, for coming to another committee to speak again on this important issue of housing in first nations communities.

I'd like to go back to talking about housing and the infrastructure gap. Why do you think it took so long to figure out the true costs of the housing and infrastructure gap?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you very much, MP Yip, for your advocacy in this area.

I don't think previous governments wanted to know the size of the infrastructure gap, in particular the previous Conservative government, which, as you know, didn't invest in any significant way in the needs of indigenous communities—first nations communities in particular, but certainly also Inuit and Métis communities.

This is the important work that has to be done, and it's an uncomfortable truth. I think that's why governments don't want to quantify things like this. When we know that the infrastructure gap, currently estimated at $360 billion, is that size, it means that governments must act, and they must act creatively, and they must encourage partners to think about ways we can close that gap together differently. It puts and centres the needs of indigenous communities in our conversations, at least for some of us, and certainly I think that's part of the reason the gap has never been quantified before.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Has the government's approach to closing the gap changed since we were able to put a dollar figure on it?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Well, I think you saw ambition in budget 2024, where almost 25%—fully 24%—of new spending is on indigenous priorities. There's an ongoing commitment by the federal government under the Liberals to keep reconciliation centred in the work we do. It isn't an easy journey. It isn't a short journey. As I often say in speeches I give before partners and first nations, the flame of reconciliation is lit, but it's like every other tiny flame. It needs constant nourishing and protection from anything that might put it out.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Just the other day, we heard some excellent testimony from Chief Lance Haymond about his work to build homes on reserve financed through private capital. I found that very interesting.

Are you looking at options like Chief Haymond's to help close the housing gap?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

The short answer is yes, we are. We are looking at anything that can leverage the investments of the federal government in the work of closing the infrastructure gap, including innovation and financing that is indigenous-led and supportive of deeper connections between us and the private sector, which often has capital to invest. There are many barriers to investing that capital in first nations endeavours.

I would also note that Chief Haymond was here when we tabled the water legislation, Bill C-61. He was an active participant in the co-creation of that legislation, as were many other first nations across the country. I think he is a significant leader to watch in terms of the kind of creativity we need across this country to deal with such a gap.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Yes, he mentioned looking at both indigenous-led and others in the financial sector.

Are you talking to anyone in the financial sector?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Absolutely. I certainly am.

In fact, as I mentioned, we had the second economic round table just a couple of weeks ago. The first one was hosted by us, and the Indigenous Services Canada team did a fantastic job. We had representation from all the major banks and from all across the financial sector. There was so much enthusiasm that the Bank of Canada offered to host the second one. That gave me a lot of excitement, because, of course, they were able to ensure there were a variety of different partners at the table, including all of the major banks, the Canada Infrastructure Bank, the First Nations Bank of Canada and many others.

There is an enthusiasm, I will tell you, in corporate Canada to really challenge ourselves on the barriers to accessing capital that first nations' communities and businesses are facing. I look forward to the next steps in this work.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Why do you think some of these initiatives have taken so long to gain momentum? I'm very glad to hear some of the major banks are stepping up, or at least interested, but it seems like it's been a long time.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Some banks and institutions have actually come a long way. They have a variety of different departments within their bank that are very focused on economic reconciliation, capital access for first nations and supporting indigenous businesses. Others do not have that same expertise.

I would say that the history of Canada has been one of economic exclusion of first nations people. This is a hard pattern to break. The good news is that—I sense this in capital markets and corporate Canada—there is a growing recognition of the economic advantage of reconciliation. This isn't just the right thing to do. It is the smart thing to do.