Public Accounts Committee on June 11th, 2024

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, MP Khalid.

I want to start by saying thanks to the commissioner and to your team for the work you've been doing.

I'll start with recognizing that, in exhibit 6.3 of the report being discussed this afternoon, you're helping Canadians to see that emissions have gone up in Canada since 1990 and that we're the only G7 country for which that is the case.

Emissions in Canada, as of the most recent inventory report, have gone up 100 megatonnes since 1990. It was around 608 megatonnes in 1990 when we all decided that we were going to start to care about the climate crisis, and it's about 708 megatonnes as of the most recent inventory report.

In your report, you've concluded that the measures the government has proposed to reduce emissions by 2030 are insufficient to meet their target of between 40% to 45%. I'll note that the target doesn't follow climate science and that we need to get to at least a 60% reduction by 2030, but we have started to go down in the last year. There's been a 7% reduction in the last year at least.

I'd like to ask questions about the measures we need to see this government taking it further and faster. On one hand, we had oil and gas CEOs at the environment committee last week, and they made it very clear to parliamentarians that they have no interest in an oil and gas cap. They have no interest in a windfall profit tax on their record-breaking excess profits. In fact, they have no interest in any additional regulations whatsoever. That's oil and gas on one hand, a significant emitter in this country.

On the other hand, we have this draft framework for the oil and gas cap that has come out since this report, and there are significant exemptions contained in it, including 25 megatonnes lost to compliance flexibilities and carbon offsets, essentially.

Commissioner, to you or Principal Leach, I'm wondering if you could share how important you think it is for this government to strengthen what was in the regulations, or if you can speak broadly about how important you see the oil and gas cap, this cap on emissions from the oil and gas sector, as it relates to making progress towards the 2030 target?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

You're absolutely right that Canada is the worst performer in the G7 since both 1990 and since 2005, the two baseline years.

What is needed is a collection of effective measures that will meet or exceed the next target. We're not in the business of setting a target. You mentioned 60% or something else, but we're in the business of assessing performance towards the committed target, which is 40% to 45%.

They need a package of measures—and it's their choice as to what the measures will be—that are effective and that will meet the target. How much they will get from each measure is up to the government to decide, but it has to be something that is at least 40%. As I said earlier, because they've tended to miss their targets over the past 30 years, they may need to aim higher and then hope to get to the minimum of 40%.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

That's my concern, that the aim with the oil and gas cap was to get 79 megatonnes of reductions, and with the draft framework that we now have, we're looking at maybe 34 megatonnes, which is about half. You're saying to aim higher, and the draft regulations are telling Canadians that they're about half as much as they had originally intended with the framework.

Do you have any advice for government on the oil and gas cap framework or any comment you'd like to make about that measure in terms of meeting our climate change goals?

[Jerry V. DeMarco]

Yes, if any of their measures are delayed or watered down in the consultation process, it means that it is all the more important to have other measures to fill in that gap. If you diminish the scope of a measure, for example, as happened with the clean fuel regulations in terms of the evolution of that regulation, then you need to catch up somewhere else.

We aren't in the business of prescribing what the full menu of measures will be, but the measures have to be, in aggregate, effective enough to meet the target.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Commissioner.

I have one last question to ask Mr. Tremblay.

I believe that my colleagues on the government side are well intentioned in terms of working towards this target, so I appreciate what we've heard from the commissioner in terms of advice for them to work towards doing so. I know one of the critiques that the commissioner has shared is a lack of coordination.

Mr. Tremblay, when I heard a colleague asking about that, I saw you shaking your head earlier. In this report, I don't see a response from Environment and Climate Change Canada. I know I'm low on time, so could you table to this committee the evidence that I assume you would purport to have that shows the increased coordination that the commissioner has said is really important for us to meet our goals?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

The reason I was raising it is that there is actually a lot of coordination. Is it perfect? No. This is a complex issue that everybody is responsible—

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I'm sorry. I apologize for interrupting. I expect to be cut off very soon.

I understand your position. Can you table some evidence to the committee that demonstrates that what you're saying is the case?

[Jean-François Tremblay]

We can respond by writing with some of the coordination that exists, yes.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I would appreciate that. Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thanks very much to all of you.

Thank you, Mr. DeMarco, Monsieur Tremblay and Mr. Conrad, for your testimony and participation in relation to the study of “Report 6—Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act—2030 Emissions Reduction Plan”. I will excuse you. We're going to continue with some business here. Any information you have can be submitted to the clerk.

Committee members, before we adjourn, a budget was distributed yesterday by the clerk in regard to our study on “Report 6—Sustainable Development Technology Canada”. I'm just looking for agreement to adopt the budget in the amount of $2,000.

I'm seeing no dissent. That is passed.

We'll see you back here Thursday for that study. This meeting is adjourned.