Public Accounts Committee on June 18th, 2024

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

As I stated earlier, there are numerous investigations—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That's not good enough. Canadians need to know. There's no transparency or accountability with the Liberal government. I'm not asking you to jeopardize the nature of the investigation. I'm asking you to confirm this: Has the Government of Canada made additional referrals, yes or no?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

You're asking me to answer a question in a manner that I cannot provide you the precision in which you're asking it. There are many ways that investigations come to us. I know that we are currently investigating several matters, as I stated earlier—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Why is it that you had no problem confirming that, when the Auditor General referred a matter to you, you were investigating, but you can't confirm whether a minister, or his department or her department, made a referral? You can't opine on that. Do you see the disconnect there, Deputy?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

Actually, Mr. Chair, I can give a very accurate precision as to why that is.

I sat in a meeting, personally, with the Auditor General and with the commissioner, where we had a discussion about the Auditor General referring information to us and offering her support in pursuit of a criminal investigation. What you're asking me for now, I have not personally been involved in those circumstances.

I can say that, organizationally, there are circumstances that have led to our conducting numerous investigations into procurement irregularities. If I had the opportunity to complete my answer in the question earlier, as I attempted, I would have explained to you that I was lacking that precision because of the lack of my personal involvement or review of the information.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Can you confirm to committee that either of those two ministers or members of their respective departments have made additional referrals with respect to fraudulent procurement billing? Can you confirm that, yes or no?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

I do not have that information with me.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I understand, but will you supply that to the committee within so many days?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

I can undertake to review the files to determine if we have that information.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you. That's what I wanted to hear.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ending the rounds of questions today, I believe, is Ms. Bradford.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Continuing along that line, Deputy Commissioner Flynn, the member opposite just mentioned that the Liberal government lacks transparency. Can you remind us whether the RCMP is overseen by the Liberal government?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

The RCMP is not overseen by the Liberal government.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Right. Thanks for clarifying that.

You said earlier that you only speak about an ongoing investigation when there's significant public interest or public safety. What meets this threshold?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

That's a difficult thing to answer. It really depends on the individual circumstances. We will make those announcements usually in the situation where there is significant public safety risk. You'll hear them in situations of sexual offenders, of rather violent offenders, who are in a particular area. You'll also hear them where we do a “duty to warn”, where there are threats to harm or murder an individual. We will make public statements in those types of situations.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Would the ArriveCAN application meet that criteria?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

I would say that it does not have that imminent harm element, but as you know, we have confirmed that we are investigating ArriveCAN, and that speaks to other analyses that we do with respect to the jeopardy that could cause, as well as the already existing public visibility of our efforts within that context.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Was the RCMP aware of the Auditor General's report before it was made public?

[D/Commr Mark Flynn]

I was not aware of the details of the Auditor General's report.

I don't know if you were, Commissioner?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

No, I was not aware of the details, but I was informed a couple of days before that she would be tabling her report.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Did she approach you at all at any point, or did you end up approaching her?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I believe it was the Auditor General who requested a meeting with me to talk about ongoing audits, but also to inform me of the tabling of the report.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Has the RCMP been given the same access to the same information that the AG used for her report on ArriveCAN?

[Commr Michael Duheme]

I wouldn't be able to answer that, and again, I go back to what I referred to earlier. We want to make sure that every piece of information that we obtain is obtained in a legal fashion so that we can incorporate it into an investigation. If it leads to charges, it could be used in a judicial procedure.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

What would the legal risk be for the RCMP? What would they be susceptible to for prejudicing an investigation into someone who turns out to be found innocent?